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Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

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Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#161

Post by mhb »

jader201 wrote: post #155
thehappypm wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are pretty much equivalent health-wise. The poison cloud is half as dense, but still a poison cloud.

Not sure I agree/understand, but it seems like if I’m inhaling 2x the poison over the same amount of time, that has exactly 2x the impact/risk on your health. This isn’t the same as something like a virus, where it’s more binary. To be clear, I’m not arguing to prove I’m right (because I’m certainly not an expert and am open to being wrong), I’m trying to understand more about how particle inhalation can have varying…

TFA article says the stuff gets in your lungs and stays there. Are you trying to figure out whether you should wear protection for x% silica containing materials? Seems like a fool's errand.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#162

Post by ilyt »

mabbo wrote: post #39

What I find interesting when comparing the US the Canada on topics like these is that in Canada, there is self-interest in demanding workers be protected. Like beyond the fact that it's a good thing you do. Because we have a public health care system, funded by taxes, having a large number of young men out of the work force (not paying taxes) and using the health care system effectively means my taxes, everyone's tax…

The problem is that you generally have to force people to keep their own safety. Else the el cheapo company shitting on any work safety will be cheaper and quicker, coz workers don't know any better, and thus more competitive, at worst killing the companies trying to do it properly.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#163

Post by pupppet »

haldujai wrote: post #133
mabbo wrote: post #39

What I find interesting when comparing the US the Canada on topics like these is that in Canada, there is self-interest in demanding workers be protected. Like beyond the fact that it's a good thing you do. Because we have a public health care system, funded by taxes, having a large number of young men out of the work force (not paying taxes) and using the health care system effectively means my taxes, everyone's tax…

Canadian data is relatively poor quality (mostly from the 90s) outside of Alberta (I expect QC and BC probably have the highest rates) but historically and estimates are that we have slightly higher incidence than the US. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/resp.14242 > There’s incentives for our government to protect workers from risks that will cost a fortune to fix. There are many examples where this…

> Canadian data is relatively poor quality

Sure, no axe to grind here. Do tell us your impartial take.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#164

Post by pgeorgi »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #109
swagempire wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada is pretty heavy on immigration I hear-- its how they partially make up for a declining birthrate.

It's not only Canada that uses immigration - legal or turning a blind eye to illegal - to make up for falling birthrate. Look at Germany. Look at France. Look at what's happen to Japan because such an option isn't as viable. It's simply not politically feasable to say, "Without immigrants, our economy is f'ed."

> It's simply not politically feasable to say, "Without immigrants, our economy is f'ed."

And yet, that's what politicians in Germany are saying: "Denn Deutschland braucht sie dringend: Durch die seit Jahrzehnten sinkende Geburtenrate gibt es auch weniger Arbeitskräfte. Diese Lücke konnte lange über Zuwanderung aus dem EU-Ausland gefüllt werden. Doch inzwischen reicht das nicht mehr aus." (https://www.spdfraktion.de/themen/neustart-migrationspolitik, the social-democrat representatives in Parliament)

"Because Germany needs them urgently: Due to the declining birth rate for decades, there are also fewer workers. For a long time, this gap could be filled by immigration from other EU countries. But this is no longer enough."

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#165

Post by nemo »

lazide wrote: post #116
mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a per-capita basis that's not hugely different, but one of the reasons may be that Canada provides a somewhat easier path, relative to the United States, to becoming a legal immigrant rather than remaining undocumented.

Really? I’ve had relatives try to immigrate to Canada (from the US), and it was quite a horror story. Any specifics?

Relative to Canada the United States is even more difficult to legally immigrate to, consider that the US system has been constantly adding ever increasing hurdles to legal immigration for ages.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#166

Post by pgeorgi »

swagempire wrote: post #93
Tao3300 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More policy preaching from ultra-white northern countries that don't let anyone in. It's such a tired trope...

Canada is pretty heavy on immigration I hear-- its how they partially make up for a declining birthrate.

> its how they partially make up for a declining birthrate.

To the detriment of their origin countries who suffer from losing their best and brightest. How "Northern countries exploit the South again" is a (rather quiet) talking point that I believe will become louder in the future.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#167

Post by londons_explore »

I suspect that stone dust generally will be found to be similarly harmful to asbestos.

Asbestos is apparently worse because of the sharp edges of the particles, but if I put any angle grinder dust under the microscope I see plenty of sharp bits too.

I think the actually harmful thing is that the dust is 'fresh' rather than being the result of years of chemical weathering which tends to smooth off the sharpest pointiest bits at nanometer scale.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#168

Post by jader201 »

mhb wrote: post #161
jader201 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I agree/understand, but it seems like if I’m inhaling 2x the poison over the same amount of time, that has exactly 2x the impact/risk on your health. This isn’t the same as something like a virus, where it’s more binary. To be clear, I’m not arguing to prove I’m right (because I’m certainly not an expert and am open to being wrong), I’m trying to understand more about how particle inhalation can have varying…

TFA article says the stuff gets in your lungs and stays there. Are you trying to figure out whether you should wear protection for x% silica containing materials? Seems like a fool's errand.

Not at all, I actually wear a mask when just sweeping the garage. :) I certainly think there should be regulation requiring masks in industries like this — and I will definitely wear a mask the next time I’m around any sort of countertop dust.

I’m mostly just curious about the science, and whether/why it is more binary than I’m understanding, vs. just taking some random HN strangers’ words.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#169

Post by paulddraper »

mabbo wrote: post #39

What I find interesting when comparing the US the Canada on topics like these is that in Canada, there is self-interest in demanding workers be protected. Like beyond the fact that it's a good thing you do. Because we have a public health care system, funded by taxes, having a large number of young men out of the work force (not paying taxes) and using the health care system effectively means my taxes, everyone's tax…

> Because we have a public health care system, funded by taxes, having a large number of young men out of the work force (not paying taxes) and using the health care system effectively means my taxes, everyone's taxes, are higher.

That is true with or without publicly funded healthcare.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#170

Post by cjbgkagh »

mabbo wrote: post #39

What I find interesting when comparing the US the Canada on topics like these is that in Canada, there is self-interest in demanding workers be protected. Like beyond the fact that it's a good thing you do. Because we have a public health care system, funded by taxes, having a large number of young men out of the work force (not paying taxes) and using the health care system effectively means my taxes, everyone's tax…

I have ME/CFS and the fact that we're expensive to the general public seems to be the only reason there is any public money spent on treatments and cures at all. However, Canada and others are finding that medically assisted suicide offers an even cheaper alternative solution. So instead of money spent on treatments and cures we get subtle and not so subtle encouragements to kill ourselves, and I expect the problem to keep getting worse. I.e. I don't think the actual emergent behaviour for shared healthcare costs is as altruistic as you appear to except.
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