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Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

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Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#161

Post by AlotOfReading »

Alupis wrote: post #125
aaomidi wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 day work week has been successful in most places. As a world we should move towards it. Other benefit: less environmental impact, more time for people to improve themselves and their mental health, etc.

Successful or not is not the point. If met with the 40% pay increase it's another huge pay raise. There is no reality where line workers screwing in the same 3 door bolts all day long are getting what amounts to an effective ~70% pay increase. Additionally, the 4 day work week is yet unproven in an industrial setting, such as are UAW member's jobs.

That 40% is amortized over 4 years, which is ~9.8% annually. Where are you getting the rest of the 70% from?

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#162

Post by ARandomerDude »

clipsy wrote: post #119
ARandomerDude wrote: post #22

Next year’s headline: Auto Makers Hike Prices 40%, Leaving Buyers Stranded

Amazing how the people who are so "concerned" that raising working class wages will result in higher prices never seem to consider that outsize executive compensation, massive stock buybacks, etc are responsible for higher prices. Almost like they aren't concerned with the prices at all!

I actually never made any of those claims. My general take is that companies who are in dominant market position will use basically any excuse to raise prices, including the ones you listed.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#163

Post by colordrops »

econperplexed wrote: post #8

> From 1978 to 2021, CEO pay grew by 1,460%, adjusted for inflation, versus just 18.1% for the typical worker. Why has the supply of CEOs not kept up with the demand for them? Surely, with the improvement in education and in increase in MBA programs, there must be far more CEOs today than in 1978. Why has the ratio of CEOs to Companies fallen by 14x for their wages to rise this much? /s As many argue, wages are only…

Are you being rhetorical, or are you actually positing that CEO pay is driven purely by supply and demand?

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#164

Post by davorak »

version_five wrote: post #61
thechao wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've become 14.6x more efficient at ... what? Increasing their pay? C'mon.

Like it or not, they've become more efficient at maximizing shareholder returns. 1978 to present included all sorts of financial shenanigans designed to turn a company from the old school "return on assets" model to a financial vehicle that profits on the spread between it's revenue stream and financing costs. I think it's shit too, but the job turned from running a company go making money appear, and the pay went wi…

> Don't hate the player, hate the game (seriously, the system is screwed up horribly)

I say it is fair to hare the player unless they are working to change/improve the "screwed up" game they are playing.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#165

Post by lolinder »

Alupis wrote: post #150
lolinder wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Comparing C-Suite compensation, pay scale, growth rate and disparity from line workers is disingenuous at best. They cannot be compared, nor should they. For everything besides growth rate I can see arguing that they can't be compared—I don't agree, but I can understand where you're coming from—but why should a CEO's salary go up dramatically faster as a percentage than line workers'? Is the CEO somehow working 40%…

The CEO is measured by company performance over a period (may be a year or years), and the value they bring the organization as a whole. Your average line worker cannot impact the entire business like this. They alone cannot be responsible for huge growth or periods of rapid shrinkage. They just happen to be the most visible...

> Your average line worker cannot impact the entire business like this.

We already use this to justify the massive disparity in raw salary, so it doesn't make sense to use that same argument to justify the massive disparity in percentage increases as well. The scope of influence is already factored in to last year's salary.

Raises on the order of hundreds of thousands would not make sense, but why not raises that are comparable as a percentage of pay? Each front line worker making (for easy math) $50k a year in 2022 can absolutely contribute more than $20k to a year's growth.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#166

Post by astrange »

clipsy wrote: post #119
ARandomerDude wrote: post #22

Next year’s headline: Auto Makers Hike Prices 40%, Leaving Buyers Stranded

Amazing how the people who are so "concerned" that raising working class wages will result in higher prices never seem to consider that outsize executive compensation, massive stock buybacks, etc are responsible for higher prices. Almost like they aren't concerned with the prices at all!

They accidentally have a point there though.

1. poorer people spend a much higher % of their income, whereas rich people save it.

2. there's a lot more poorer people than rich people, which unfortunately can mean they're more capable of moving prices.

This is sort of related to why the middle class thinks full employment+low inequality economy is worse. There's other middle class people to bid up prices, and service at restaurants is worse/more expensive. It's nice to be in a high-unemployment high-inequality economy, if you're employed.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#167

Post by mschuster91 »

thriftwy wrote: post #70
mschuster91 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The WTO has been fucked over for years now. Practically they've been kneecapped since 2019 "thanks" to the 45th [1], and even before that, they didn't do much against the clear breaches of good conduct that China committed, and for what it's worth it's not like the actions of the 45th were without good cause, even back under Bush the WTO was infamous for being slow as molasses even compared to other international org…

I'm just amazed how, with enough money invested into propaganda of economic liberalism (still a paltry sum in the grand order of things), you can have smart people around the world repeating your mantras without noticing for decades that you have not even pretended to live up to your own faith. Many of them acolytes actually ruining their domestic economy by executing on these principles.

The problem is, the propaganda was all just propaganda in the end. Yes, we got cheap trinkets out of China, but at what price? Insane amounts of economic devastation, as none of the promised benefits other than said cheap trinkets materialized. None of the countries that "change by trade" ("Wandel durch Handel") targeted became democratic, and instead of "trickle down of wealth" we got a "trickle down of shit and exploitation" [1] while the elites at the top got ever richer and richer.

[1] https://www.allaboutlean.com/hoshin-kanri-3/bird-shit-hierar...

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#168

Post by lr4444lr »

clipsy wrote: post #119
ARandomerDude wrote: post #22

Next year’s headline: Auto Makers Hike Prices 40%, Leaving Buyers Stranded

Amazing how the people who are so "concerned" that raising working class wages will result in higher prices never seem to consider that outsize executive compensation, massive stock buybacks, etc are responsible for higher prices. Almost like they aren't concerned with the prices at all!

How much is executive comp really at a publicly traded company as a percentage of revenue? 40% raises for most employees across the board probably dwarfs it.

I don't see how stock buybacks relate more directly to anything here than retained earnings, or other kinds of reinvestment. They're just an effect of market conditions and the stock price.

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#169

Post by galleywest200 »

lr4444lr wrote: post #138
meindnoch wrote: post #79

"Obviously, CEOs should be the highest-paid person in an enterprise" Hold on there chap! How is this obvious?

They have the highest accountability.

But do they do the most for the company, though? What about those who actually invent their products in R&D, or any of that?

Re: Striking auto workers want a 40% pay increase–the same rate their CEOs’ pay grew

#170

Post by SECProto »

Alupis wrote: post #125
aaomidi wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 day work week has been successful in most places. As a world we should move towards it. Other benefit: less environmental impact, more time for people to improve themselves and their mental health, etc.

Successful or not is not the point. If met with the 40% pay increase it's another huge pay raise. There is no reality where line workers screwing in the same 3 door bolts all day long are getting what amounts to an effective ~70% pay increase. Additionally, the 4 day work week is yet unproven in an industrial setting, such as are UAW member's jobs.

> Settle in for a wild propaganda-filled fall season

> There is no reality where line workers screwing in the same 3 door bolts all day long are getting what amounts to an effective ~70% pay increase in one year.

Please align your own comments. They are looking for a 40% hourly pay increase over 4 years, and a reduction to a 32 hour work week. These combined work out to an increase of 12% in annual pay, over four years. No UAW hired since 2007 makes more than $17/hour.

If you're looking for more details of what the UAW wants, they are in this article: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/13/where-uaw-negotations-stand-...

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