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America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

americanaffairsjournal.org

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Re: America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

#161
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Elon stans need to read up on his history. He claims to have significant engineering experience but in reality he does not, he mostly got lucky a couple times early on and hired well. There are millions of people much more capable than him but will never have their chance because they don't have the resources to make their ideas actionable.

I'm no Elon stan, but I think telling others to "read up" is ironic. https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/book-review-elon-musk#%C2%A... Feel free to point me to people actually around him that thinks he doesn't know physics or engineering. "What's really remarkable to me is the breadth of his knowledge. I mean I've met a lot of super super smart people but they're usually super super smart on one thing and he's able to…

That's a "rationalist" blog, an inherently unreliable source in this area, and they're literally only quoting people who have a relationship with him and stand to gain financially from his success.

Objectively, at present he's stoking a fire comprised of $44 billion dollars, committing anti trust crimes, and endangering a besieged foreign nation.

Judge him by his actions, not by what his blowhards say about him.

Re: America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

#163

The authors state that the US "is not a global leader in the advanced manufacturing of the twenty-first century" but don't actually support that claim; we're kind of supposed to take it for granted.

I don't think this is a problem.

A piece like this is not a self contained textbook. It's a hot topic with 100 years of history near the centre of political and economic discourse. Contentious claims are inevitable.

The reverse claim also gets made, and whether or not the claim is "supported," it's never sufficiently supported. The reality is that there's a whole debate with vountermoves behind either claim.

One side looks at employment, tonnage, plant construction, anecdote and common sense. The other looks at accounting.

Accounting says that "manufacturing" has increased. Skeptics consider this an accounting fiction. The reality is that "manufacturing" in 2023 is not quantifiable in the way that it was in 1923. Accounting semantics are abstract and past a point turn into a matter of accountants' naming convention.

A 1923 ford factory represented most of the "manufacturing" represented by the cars that they produced. As the industry splits into OEMs, T1s, T2s, toolers and whatnot^ we move into more abstract definitions. Has one of Ford's industrial engineering teams ceased to be "manufacturing," because they now design processes for a Mexican subsidiary? How about the US-based management/overherheads for the subsidiary? Irl, accountants can represent these any way that the tax man, board or market prefers. The same physical change can represent 20% or 5% decrease in manufacturing.

There's just a point where quantifications fail, and can't be used to decide such debates conclusively.

Where we're at now, imo, requires us to keep purpose in mind, and forget about a single, neutral quantification. If you're quantifying manufacturing for maximum military potential, employment or resilience to trade problems... You probably need different definitions/quantifications of "manufacturing."

^These specific conventions were created to structure trade deals and regulate tarrifs.

Re: America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

#164
post #105
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building a subway is infrastructure, not manufacturing. Elon recently said the sheet metal in the cyber truck needed to be machined to the precision of a red blood cell. This is not somebody who understands manufacturing.

The Elon stans need to read up on his history. He claims to have significant engineering experience but in reality he does not, he mostly got lucky a couple times early on and hired well. There are millions of people much more capable than him but will never have their chance because they don't have the resources to make their ideas actionable.

we literally got reusable rockets because of him.

no one says he is a great engineer, but oh boy he sure does well in finding those great engineers and funding them to work on large scale projects.

he hires people greater than him in other fields, no doubt.

Re: America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

#165
The article raises and goes fairly deep into explaining many important issues, but I find it's naive belief the numbers China presents quite surprising.

Take this for example: >China dominates the production of full electric vehicles

And put it in context with the recent revelations of hectares of abandoned new EVs rotting in many locations in China. Why? The financial policy gave incentives to making more EVs, some enterprising individuals managed to manufacture very low quality cars while funding it with "shared car startup model". Then when these car sharing schemes went bankrupt (because many cars wouldn't complete a single trip without malfunction) they had enormous profits regardless. How? The cost of manufacturing was funded by investors in these startups(a third party, or a client from the manufacturer's point of view). After they went bankrupt there would be no warranty claims etc. While the per car gov subsidy was pure profit.

I cannot understand why anyone in the West would believe any economic statistic or number coming out of China. The country is known for fudging numbers at all levels. The corruption is endemic to the point one actually pays for government positions with cash (as a bribe to higher ups) and considers it an investment to recoup in own bribes in future.

It's Soviet Union all over again. Back then The West to the last moment had many prominent authors praising Soviet advancements in many fields until the very end and the collapse that was a complete surprise to many.

Re: America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

#166

I work in one of the last remaining large industrial manufacturing labs in the US. Some of my colleagues worked at Bell before that was shuttered. My sense from talking to the previous generation is that financialization of the US has started (finally) failing the American people. The previous generation cashed in on major profits by off shoring (Kodak), but we overdid it. In a round about way our company is run by p…

An important point is that the recent wave of globalization has been very good for poor people in developing countries outside of the US. From the perspective of US workers, outsourcing looks greedy. From the perspective of foreign workers, outsourcing looks altruistic. https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty-in-brief Even with recent globalization, Americans are still far richer than most people in other countrie…

Something tells me factory workers in Taiwan do not see their employer as altruistic. :-) That is perhaps a over-extension of the word.

Re: America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

#167
I think that the American manufacturing problems are beyond fixing at this point. Between higher energy costs, higher regulatory/legal costs as well as numerous labor problems, it's just not realistic to imagine that American manufacturing could be competitive.

Re: America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

#168

Obvious Solution: Re-establish the military draft, but with a far smaller pool of potential draftees - and make sure the families of current & recent members of Congress, Wall Street big-shots, Fortune 500 CxO's, McKinsey consultants, and such are all assigned to serve in front-line "meat shield" battalions on the western shores of Taiwan, just south of Korea's DMZ, etc.

You should remember that the US military is a two-tier system: there are the officers who rarely see real battle, and the rank and file who effectively die. In the case of war, if the rich ever serve they will be officers, they will only command other less fortunate to battle.

Ignoring the combat-duty service records of President Theodore Roosevelt and his sons, President George Bush Sr., President John F. Kennedy and his brothers, etc., etc. - did you notice that I specified service in front-line ground combat battalions, in places where major wars seems all too likely to start?

Major wars might be far less likely if America's ruling classes felt that they had some real skin in the game, and people they cared about could easily get killed.

Re: America's advanced manufacturing problem and how to fix it

#169

The article raises and goes fairly deep into explaining many important issues, but I find it's naive belief the numbers China presents quite surprising. Take this for example: >China dominates the production of full electric vehicles And put it in context with the recent revelations of hectares of abandoned new EVs rotting in many locations in China. Why? The financial policy gave incentives to making more EVs, some…

> Back then The West to the last moment had many prominent authors praising Soviet advancements in many fields until the very end and the collapse that was a complete surprise to many.

I hear you. But I am not worried about whatever economic modellers say, or what prominent authors write. What I am worried is when huge companies, predominantly preceived as western ones, spread their arms and swear there is no way they can make their gizmos in the USA.

Look at Apple for example, most valuable company on the whole world and 44-47% of their production sites is in china. Did we had anything like that in the Soviet block?

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