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37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

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Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#161

Post by zamadatix »

scarface_74 wrote: post #128
Calavar wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That pricing sounds fair. Unfortunately, I feel that's the exception. Adobe Dreamweaver CS6 was $400 [1]. Now Dreamweawer Creative Cloud is $250 per year [2]. So after 1.75 years, you've already taken a loss. [1] https://prodesigntools.com/products/adobe-cs6-pricing-list.h... [2] https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html

And for that $400 you got to run on one computer. Office used to be $600 for one copy that could run on one operating system. I can now get an Office 365 subscription for $99 a year for five users and I can use it on my Mac, a Windows PC, iPad, iPhone and all five users get 1TB of storage each

Office is also just cheaper, it's 1/4 the price for the lifetime license than it used to be. The family offering is still the best deal I've seen to get it though. Not all subscriptions allow multiple users or even you to use it at the same time on multiple devices though, Office is just pushing that sale.

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#162

Post by pb7 »

amatecha wrote: post #158
pb7 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny that you talk about greed when one of the reasons everything went the way of subscriptions is because of piracy. Even here and today, people defend pirating movies when you can rent one for a few bucks in 4K HDR with Dolby. Nothing but greed by people making top 1%-10%ile incomes.

No, the invention of subscription models is not because of piracy. It's because you can keep extracting money from customers "forever", rather than just once, and continue funding your business instead of having large gaps of reduced revenue when a product has not been recently released. A moment of consideration easily reveals that SaaS was inevitable with cheap hosting/networking and readily-available worldwide pay…

Two things can be true at once. Piracy was a huge contributor to adoption of subscription based models.

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#163

Post by hatsune »

commoner wrote: post #57
turnsout wrote: post #28

Man, talk about a ship that has sailed. I was 100% anti-subscription pricing for a very long time. Eventually I realized, it's better for the software vendor and the customer. Final Cut Pro used to cost $999 upfront, now a teenager can use Final Cut on their iPad for $7/month, and subscribe only when they need it.

That's not a fair comparison. Final Cut Pro's price on macOS has been $299.99 since 2011, and Apple sells a "Pro Apps Bundle for Education" available to everyone that includes Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro, and other macOS apps for $199.99 ( https://www.apple.com/us-edu/shop/product/BMGE2Z/A/pro-apps-... ). I'm sure a lot of users would appreciate a one-time payment option for Final Cut Pro or Logic Pro on the iPad, inclu…

Especially consider the need to update your software for NLE is highly selective. H.264 and H.265 were used over the years for LongGOP, while ProRes and DNxHD/DNxHR were all supported a long time ago. There are no reasons to update unless you need latest blackmagic RAW or ProRes RAW, which are well beyond normal consumer realm. AV1 may be a new thing, but that's it.

There are no continuous vital features updates like being able to read newer camera RAW files for ACR. I find a one-time payment much more suitable for FCP.

With LPX and anything remotely in music production area the subscription just seems dumb. Omnisphere, Komplete, FL Studio, Cubase, Pro Tools, Ableton Live were all in the realm for decades, and while subscription did became a thing (especially for very expensive samples like Hollywood, Spitfire, etc.) features in a DAW are sufficient for a long life cycle in production, and mandating a subscription for "keeping latest" just seems odd.

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#164

Post by forbiddenvoid »

gkedzierski wrote: post #77
tough wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? That they pinoeered the current meta should be more indicative that they are ready to move from it than stay on it forever. Good for them I guess, I do hope we see more custom artisan software out there and less VC SaaS milkcows

How much of that is just "contrarian as a marketing tactic"?

It's exactly that. Jason and DHH have built their entire personal brands on contrarianism. It works for them, but at a certain point it feels inauthentic.

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#165

Post by amatecha »

pb7 wrote: post #162
amatecha wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the invention of subscription models is not because of piracy. It's because you can keep extracting money from customers "forever", rather than just once, and continue funding your business instead of having large gaps of reduced revenue when a product has not been recently released. A moment of consideration easily reveals that SaaS was inevitable with cheap hosting/networking and readily-available worldwide pay…

Two things can be true at once. Piracy was a huge contributor to adoption of subscription based models.

How do you know? My experiences and knowledge of the subject indicate otherwise. I'm not convinced. (btw, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim of the existence of something, as one cannot prove that something doesn't exist)

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#166

Post by weaksauce »

agloe_dreams wrote: post #39
stanmancan wrote: post #2

My favourite licensing models for self-hosted software are perpetual fallback licenses. Jetbrains does this well and their description of it is: A perpetual fallback license is a license that allows you to use a specific version of software without an active subscription for it. The license also includes all bugfix updates, more specifically in X.Y.Z version all Z releases are included.

This is great until a company starts making file formats completely incompatible with back versions, making it impossible to use with friends or anyone else. Oh or when they just change the plan to subscription only anyways. I'm looking at you, Sketch.

cough solidworks

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#167

Post by turnsout »

wlesieutre wrote: post #114
turnsout wrote: post #28

Man, talk about a ship that has sailed. I was 100% anti-subscription pricing for a very long time. Eventually I realized, it's better for the software vendor and the customer. Final Cut Pro used to cost $999 upfront, now a teenager can use Final Cut on their iPad for $7/month, and subscribe only when they need it.

But that's not how the subscription pricing goes. Final Cut Pro X was $299, not $999 so it's not even a good example. One the other end of the spectrum are all the mobile apps that start as a $2.99 one time purchase, add a bunch of features, and say "Actually it'll be $11.99/year forever thanks." When every app starts to do that it adds up fast.

It was $999 for many years, but has been $299 for over a decade now. But $299 might as well be $2999 for many people.

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#168

Post by turnsout »

macintux wrote: post #146
turnsout wrote: post #28

Man, talk about a ship that has sailed. I was 100% anti-subscription pricing for a very long time. Eventually I realized, it's better for the software vendor and the customer. Final Cut Pro used to cost $999 upfront, now a teenager can use Final Cut on their iPad for $7/month, and subscribe only when they need it.

I have an iOS app that I love and rely upon, but it’s effectively abandonware because the developer didn’t charge enough. I too am pro-subscription: take my money, please.

Yes! I developed a paid (upfront) iOS app and had to abandon it because there was no way to fund further development.

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#169

Post by benhurmarcel »

mercwear wrote: post #5

Pretty vague announcement, I find it hard to believe 37 signals will stray too far from the SaaS cash cow they arguably helped to create with basecamp..

Yes it feels a bit ironic coming from a pure SaaS company (Basecamp and Hey).

Re: 37signals Introduces "Once" - Buy software one time

#170

Post by Nextgrid »

jawns wrote: post #72

> Add up your SaaS subscriptions last year. You should own that shit by now. I know a lot of companies are adopting a more irreverent marketing approach, using words that 20 years ago would have been bleeped out. The swear word itself does not offend me. But to me its use here suggests a lack of restraint, and that makes me form a negative opinion about how the business is managed, especially when the words are comin…

I think the usage of the swear word is to explicitly differentiate themselves from all the spineless companies that can't do that, potentially due to a bullshit "growth & engagement"/advertising-based business model. I like it.
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