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Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

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Re: Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

#161

Post by marcusf »

dudeguy999 wrote: post #148
marcusf wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always befuddled me that when it's a woman making a conscious choice about her body or when two men wants to marry the small government party see no issue with injecting themselves into peoples lives. Also, it's slightly ironic to compare the american view on murder with a european view when you're the ones executing people.

On the issue of abortion, you can't see the other side at all? At the least, you're preventing a human life from happening. That doesn't give you cause for thought and reflection? Call it what you want, but if your mother had an abortion you would be dead. The opposition believes that nobody has a right to make the conscious choice to kill another human being. That sounds like a reasonable place to start. I'm consist…

I've honestly tried hard to understand the other side, but no, I cannot. First of all, I don't see what gives you the moral prerogative to make that choice for a woman. Secondly, I don't believe it's a human being yet (we're not talking the 38th week here). If my mother had an abortion I would not be dead right now, I would have never existed at all. I would be a non-event. And I'm fine with that.

On the flip side, how about contraceptives? If removing a fetus after 4 weeks is murder, how about birth control pills? Or emergency contraception pills? Arguably, they kill as well?

Re: Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

#162

Post by HolyHaddock »

temphn wrote: post #147
gyardley wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. When deciding whether you think someone should apologize or not for an action, the issue is not whether the party they offended can force an apology, it's whether you believe that person's action was wrong. Many of the people angry about this incident believe that sexism is wrong, but advocating atheism in Dawkins' manner is not wrong. Therefore they believe the sexist should apologize, and Dawkins should…

Many of the people angry about this incident believe that sexism is wrong, but advocating atheism in Dawkins' manner is not wrong. Right. However, the group of people who are against sexism are objectively much more culturally and economically powerful than the group of people who are against Dawkins. Heroku doesn't fear any lost business from supporting Dawkins, but it dropped Sqoot like a hot potato. You could quan…

You seem to be stating that Christians (the anti-Dawkins) are objectively (ie measurably) less culturally and economically powerful than Feminists (the anti-Sqoot). I'm assuming, as Heroku and Sqoot are American, you mean it as a general statement about the US, or at least the US tech industry.

I'd like to believe this was true. Could you offer any evidence?

Re: Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

#163

Post by ericaricardo »

rauljara wrote: post #38
ellyagg wrote: post #29

Whenever people get outraged about things like this, it interests me. I like looking at attractive women. I like programming. Would it be possible to have an event where I could program and look at attractive women at the same time? Or does enjoying seeing attractive women in public make me a bad person? As a man, is this my original sin? In fact, I've even been known to flirt with attractive women in public--perhaps…

The marketing material assumed that the people reading it would be heterosexual men, and gave no consideration to the idea that a woman might actually want to attend an event. Finding women attractive is not a sin. Assuming the whole world should revolve around what you find attractive without giving any consideration to the other half of the world's population is sexist. Not "I hate women" sexist. Just "women don't…

>> gave no consideration to the idea that a woman might >> actually want to attend an event

Spent about 5 minutes assuming that they were encouraging /women/ programmers to enjoy the female staff, and assuming all women in attendance were /lesbians/ ("Women: Need another beer?").

Like, "pff, not ALL women programmers are lesbians, you guys! ... ... ... oh wait. Oh ... "

Re: Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

#164

Post by scate »

niete wrote: post #158
sequoia wrote: post #84

When I got to this thread the top comment (by ellyagg) 100% missed the point. He seemed to think people were upset by the idea of sexuality, or offended that a man might be attracted to a woman. Sexuality or sexual orientation is not the issue. The commodification of women is the issue. When you list "Women!" as a feature of your event along with "Booze", "Gym Access", and "Food Truck" wares [1], you are treating the…

When I tell my friend that he should come to my party because a bunch of really cool people will be there, didn't I just commodify them too? OH THE HORROR. When you apply English class style logic you can make anything seem as bad the holocaust.

You are right with your first sentence. Don't know why you needed to invoke holocaust emotive in your last.

Re: Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

#165

Post by scate »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #100
cjbprime wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I understand your point, but to be clear: I'm a man, and I like women. My like of women extends to not wanting them to be treated like beer-servants and told that they aren't welcome as equals at a coding event, because it would make me feel awful if someone did those things to me. Empathy allows you to try to work out how something might feel from someone else's perspective, and is what should be used…

This is my problem with this issue in general. They are not beer servants. They are workers being paid to do a job.Its an event where women are paid to bring you a beverage. Will you rally against Friday's, Hooter's, and Buffalo Wild Wings next? I have empathy; I also understand that you don't have to work at a job bringing beer to coders if you don't want to .

If they are workers being paid to do a job, why is their gender even mentioned in the flyer?

Re: Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

#166

Post by scate »

nirvdrum wrote: post #112
cjbprime wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I understand your point, but to be clear: I'm a man, and I like women. My like of women extends to not wanting them to be treated like beer-servants and told that they aren't welcome as equals at a coding event, because it would make me feel awful if someone did those things to me. Empathy allows you to try to work out how something might feel from someone else's perspective, and is what should be used…

There's a big difference between understanding how something might offend someone else and equally being offended by it. I wasn't offended by this. I ran it by my wife, who happens to also be a programmer, and she wasn't offended by it either. Are we wrong or bad people? I mean, we see how others might be offended by it, so there's some level of empathy, but we're not grabbing our pitchforks over it. On the other han…

When you say that you "ran it by your wife who happens to be a programmer and she wasn't offended by it either", are you then saying that your wife must then have a proxy for all women? That all women must then agree with your wife's point of view? Because she apparently is not offended, therefore no other woman should be offended? If she thinks it's ok then it must be ok because she's a woman? I wonder how many times this has been used against women? I know someone who is ok with this so therefore your argument is invalid.

Re: Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

#167

Post by scate »

nirvdrum wrote: post #123
natrius wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an inclusive way to advertise an event. Making a minority in a community feel like an event isn't really intended for them is bad.

Honestly, when these sorts of things happen, I'd love for every man in the world to just shut up for a minute. I have a hard time stomaching this whacked out form chivalry where men somehow have to fight on behalf of women because they're unable to defend themselves. I understand it's of far purer intent, but it seems just as sexist to me. Actually, it seems worse because it has a tinge of hypocrisy to it. I'd much r…

"I'd much rather get a woman's reaction to it in an environment where she feels safe to speak her mind (and the Internet provides some pretty good avenues for this)." Quite likely you are unaware that women bloggers as a community are continually the target of extreme and sexually explicit violent comments and death threats. But business as usual. People are always trying to shut up women and the men who support them.

Re: Heroku Pulls Sponsorship After Boston API Jam Publishes Sexist Eventbrite

#168

Post by byrneseyeview »

npc wrote: post #98
reinhardt wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...but if it weren't for you being offended there would be nothing wrong with this." Is this statement even controversial? The only reason someone issues an apology (honest or not) is because one or more others were offended. If nobody is offended, by definition there is nothing wrong with it.

So if I say something shockingly racist, but the only people around to hear it are my shockingly racist buddies, then it's totally OK because no-one is offended?

I'm late to this, but: yes.

Or rather, if you say something really offensive, like "Women should be allowed to read books, or even leave the house without covering their faces," it's not offensive because you probably aren't saying it in front of a Shia cleric.

If you say something that's intellectually unfashionable, but the people you talk to are unphased, I just don't understand the case for considering that a bad thing. Who is the wronged party? How were they harmed? What's society's interest in redressing this, and what's our mechanism for doing so?

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