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The EU's war on behavioral advertising

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Re: The EU's war on behavioral advertising

#161

Post by kranke155 »

sib wrote: post #158
johndhi wrote: post #130

As a lawyer working on these topics, this is a poor phrasing. EU regulators don't need to "war" with advertisers - they have complete control over them. There's no other side of this war, just regulators issuing commands that industry tries to follow. It's confusing as a war is because the regulators decided not to make the law say, 'behavioral advertising is illegal,' and instead have spent years slowly awakening to…

Unfortunately, it's really the EU regulators at war with companies' abilities to make better products.

Advertising is not a product

Re: The EU's war on behavioral advertising

#162

Post by FirmwareBurner »

nceqs3 wrote: post #73
JCWasmx86 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you just have to follow the regulations. It's no "war on US companies" or anything like that. They wrote some good law (Albeit it has a few weaknesses), and enforce it now. And if you want to do business in the EU, you have to follow them. I would say it's more a problem of the US companies, if they can't do business without violating EU regulations.

Have you read how vague the laws are. It's all designed to extract fines from US companies.

The TL:DR of GDPR is "just don't drack your users without their consent". Why is that difficult for US corporations to follow? Even '90s web was by default GDPR complaint.

Re: The EU's war on behavioral advertising

#163

Post by djhn »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #160
amadeuspagel wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter and youtube had chronological feeds for years.

5 min on yt shorts and I'm fed a diet of Andrew-Tate, Joe Rogan, or if I disagree with this genre and rage-click it away, I get left-wing US hate on why aren't you outraged about Dave Chapelle - because you should be? Youtube feed for content discovery of intelligent men has died long time ago. It is US propaganda at it's finest but for a global audience.

Well out of the people you mention I only recognise Joe Rogan By name - never seen anything of his in my recommendations. Almost 20 year old YouTube account. I watch shorts regularly as well.

Re: The EU's war on behavioral advertising

#164

Post by Krasnol »

ppsreejith wrote: post #148
di4na wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that you have an unshown assumption here. That none of the participants lie and that you can infer niche effectively from the data. And that the ad can deliver the behaviour change The ads are only cheaper if they actually find the niche people and change the behaviour. Otherwise you spent money for nothing. The problem is that we have pretty good hunch from a bundle of clues that the data and org that validate…

1. Modern digital ads can be very well measured. At least the ones focused on direct conversion and not branding. Advertisers can measure the impact of their spending independently and the results can be seen fairly quickly. (Again, not brand advertising). 2. Advertisement match-making isn't perfect (which is why I wrote "in an ideal world"). There is some time and signal buffer till we get enough signal to show the…

You've missed the main negative part: the attack on our attention and mindfulness.

I really hope that the results of neurologic research won't take much longer to put an end to this disgusting behavior, which attacks central parts of the consciousness of every victim.

(Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Metzinger)

Re: The EU's war on behavioral advertising

#165

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

djhn wrote: post #163
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 min on yt shorts and I'm fed a diet of Andrew-Tate, Joe Rogan, or if I disagree with this genre and rage-click it away, I get left-wing US hate on why aren't you outraged about Dave Chapelle - because you should be? Youtube feed for content discovery of intelligent men has died long time ago. It is US propaganda at it's finest but for a global audience.

Well out of the people you mention I only recognise Joe Rogan By name - never seen anything of his in my recommendations. Almost 20 year old YouTube account. I watch shorts regularly as well.

good for you if yt knows you and caters to your interest. it is well known that if you show up with a new device, this isn't the case. and for most newcomers this means radicalize in 1 of 2 directions

Re: The EU's war on behavioral advertising

#166

Post by username135 »

AlexandrB wrote: post #111
spunker540 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think complex algos, complex feeds, across large search space (all content instead of friends and family) turns out to be more profitable? Are ads suddenly more valuable in that context? I don’t think so. And it’s certainly much more expensive to operate than a simple chronological feed of friends and family. It comes down to time spent. People spend more time on the apps and see more ads. We can argue ove…

Addictiveness is not necessarily an indicator of utility. Drug addicts keep going back to heroin even if it's ruining their lives. Just because I feel compelled to scroll and endless, algorithmic feed it does not mean that this is how I want to use social media or that such usage reflects the role I want it to have in my life.

It's almost a self fulfilling effect at this point.

Re: The EU's war on behavioral advertising

#167

Post by mehlmao »

Barraketh wrote: post #151
JohnFen wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, in order to actually measure that, when a user comes to your website you need to know which of your ads they've seen. That may be the case, but so what? If an industry can't function without abusing people, I would argue that it shouldn't function. But this doesn't mean the industry can't function. It just means that advertising becomes less efficient (i.e., more expensive). Which is fine -- if it's more e…

You're right, it's just that the word "abuse" is doing a lot of work in that statement. I've still never seen any example of any person being actually damaged by the "tracking", so calling it "abuse" feels pretty harsh.

Off the top of my head: targeted ads towards people who are predisposed to gambling addictions or alcoholism

Re: The EU's war on behavioral advertising

#168

Post by uxp8u61q »

Barraketh wrote: post #151
JohnFen wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, in order to actually measure that, when a user comes to your website you need to know which of your ads they've seen. That may be the case, but so what? If an industry can't function without abusing people, I would argue that it shouldn't function. But this doesn't mean the industry can't function. It just means that advertising becomes less efficient (i.e., more expensive). Which is fine -- if it's more e…

You're right, it's just that the word "abuse" is doing a lot of work in that statement. I've still never seen any example of any person being actually damaged by the "tracking", so calling it "abuse" feels pretty harsh.

Society as a whole is damaged by the tracking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Ana...

Re: The EU's war on behavioral advertising

#169

Post by riversflow »

MauranKilom wrote: post #154
riversflow wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Having thought about this long and hard, lucrative behavioral advertising seems like a fair price to pay for an open, free (as in beer), internet. I fear this type of regulation will only serve to make the internet become much less equitable.

Without trying to dismiss your opinion: Was the internet before Google/ad-tech not "open, free (as in beer)"?

Well it certainly wasn’t equitable, connected computers were the realm of the rich. The problem with free services is scaling them to significant portions of the entire population.

Re: The EU's war on behavioral advertising

#170

Post by cmarschner »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #160
amadeuspagel wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter and youtube had chronological feeds for years.

5 min on yt shorts and I'm fed a diet of Andrew-Tate, Joe Rogan, or if I disagree with this genre and rage-click it away, I get left-wing US hate on why aren't you outraged about Dave Chapelle - because you should be? Youtube feed for content discovery of intelligent men has died long time ago. It is US propaganda at it's finest but for a global audience.

I only get puppies all along
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