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Getting a job at Apple without going to college or doing LeetCode

aheze.substack.com

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Re: Getting a job at Apple without going to college or doing LeetCode

#161
Nice to see the app that highlights dietary restrictions in real-time in the camera view.

I tried to make that in 2017, before Apple had their own OCR API. It was using Tesseract (via gali8/Tesseract-OCR-iOS) but the performance just wasn't quite there yet.

Re: Getting a job at Apple without going to college or doing LeetCode

#162

The problem is that "leetcode" is a definitely a thing that exists in "FAANG" interviews. The biggest stumbling block with leetcode is that you shouldn't be programming like that in real life. "make a linked list" no, just use a library like everyone else. "Implement addition in python but with string inputs", "no you can't use the built in x" All of that "clever" shit should be filtered out at PR/MR/diff review time…

Adding 1 to an ASCII decimal strings is a great icebreaker and I always use it. It is not leetcode. It is a filter for people who have actually encountered computers before. Even though our industry is maturing there are still a huge number of candidates who present themselves without ever once having written a program. I find the question has a massive signal. Either the candidate aces it in 15 seconds, or they immediately ask a bunch of on-point clarifying questions, or they are stumped.

Re: Getting a job at Apple without going to college or doing LeetCode

#163
post #75

The problem is that "leetcode" is a definitely a thing that exists in "FAANG" interviews. The biggest stumbling block with leetcode is that you shouldn't be programming like that in real life. "make a linked list" no, just use a library like everyone else. "Implement addition in python but with string inputs", "no you can't use the built in x" All of that "clever" shit should be filtered out at PR/MR/diff review time…

I'm not going to defend "leetcode grinding" and its pathologies but TBF this is problematic: > "make a linked list" no, just use a library like everyone else. > "Implement addition in python but with string inputs", "no you can't use the built in x" All of that "clever" shit should be filtered out at PR/MR/diff review time. Sure, those statements (just use an existing library) are what you'll do in practice especiall…

> One is "do you know what's going on under the hood?" On another post I just saw a comment in which someone advocated counting the number of occurrences of something in a list by filtering it and then getting the length of the result. This is almost certainly a terrible solution as it allocates memory (which has to be freed) in what can be done in a single quick pass. By asking you such a question the interviewer can learn if you have some idea of the tradeoffs and why something might be a good or bad idea.

> These are the kinds of decisions that can have order of magnitude impacts on runtime, which can have huge impact on the company's costs.

Then the questions should be more like: What data structure, library, method, steps, would you use to solve this problem and why. What are the tradeoffs of your choices, etc?

All of this can be answered in fairly high level pseudocode too and still show that they understand the concepts etc.

Re: Getting a job at Apple without going to college or doing LeetCode

#165
post #115

I think most people here understand that this is a great story but not a realistic approach to how to get into big tech. The part that had me laugh a bit is: > Is it a coincidence that Apple was the only Big Tech company that didn’t do layoffs? I will say no it’s not a coincidence but it’s a direct relationship to growth and spend, like any heartless corp. Apple continued to have the growth curve they wanted so they…

Apple also uses contractors for core products way more than other big companies and letting those go doesn’t make headlines.

Re: Getting a job at Apple without going to college or doing LeetCode

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Machine Learning Engineer with 5+ years of experience at FAANG. I have designed and built real time ML systems that support millions of QPS with And yet I can't escape leetcode interviews. In fact I recently sent a spree of CVs and got automated rejection emails for most of them. I don't buy your take.

This is privilege if you think 3 CVs is a lot. I applied for 100 yesterday.

OP said spree, not 3

Re: Getting a job at Apple without going to college or doing LeetCode

#167

Going to college is still the most successful route towards landing an interview. My managers generally won’t let me schedule an interview with somebody with no degree, even with personal recommendations. And all of my coworkers have college degrees. I hope people don’t read stories like this and draw general conclusions based on rare outliers.

Even if they have years of experience in the industry? I understand for people without experience, but it seems crazy to not hire someone who has been doing the work for 20 years just because they don’t have a degree.

Re: Getting a job at Apple without going to college or doing LeetCode

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but try coming up with that without even remembering what invert meant (it isn't a word that is commonly used in practice outside of CS education and l00tcode). Most of the problem in l00tcode question is just figuring out what is being asked for, not in doing the ask. That's why studying and understanding lots of l00tcode problems as prep is very effective (even if you haven't seen the problem, the problem is…

'Invert' is a pretty common word.

Yes, but the common slang it is used for isn't the meaning we are using for l00tcode questions.

Re: Getting a job at Apple without going to college or doing LeetCode

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is though how do you evaluate for real work without a portfolio of experience? Real work projects take weeks - perhaps months - to design, build, review and release. How do you test for that, really? I agree leetcode style interviews are artificial, but I think they persist because few people have identified and popularised effective alternatives. At least with leetcode you've shown people in front of you…

It seems fairly straightforward to just ask verbal questions? For example, if the position is mostly coding C then just get them to explain how some X interacts with some Y and how that interacts with some Z. Maybe with a copy of of K&R and get them to point to page so and so. Do that a few times, maybe use a whiteboard, and I think any experienced C developer will be able to tell who's faking it and who really under…

I write a lot of C and gave up on reading K&R as it is just too outdated.

Re: Getting a job at Apple without going to college or doing LeetCode

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is though how do you evaluate for real work without a portfolio of experience? Real work projects take weeks - perhaps months - to design, build, review and release. How do you test for that, really? I agree leetcode style interviews are artificial, but I think they persist because few people have identified and popularised effective alternatives. At least with leetcode you've shown people in front of you…

It seems fairly straightforward to just ask verbal questions? For example, if the position is mostly coding C then just get them to explain how some X interacts with some Y and how that interacts with some Z. Maybe with a copy of of K&R and get them to point to page so and so. Do that a few times, maybe use a whiteboard, and I think any experienced C developer will be able to tell who's faking it and who really under…

> It seems fairly straightforward to just ask verbal questions?

This is basically my interviewing POV. If you've done the work, you can talk about the work intelligently if I ask some questions about it. If I ask you how you would think about solving problem XYZ, you can probably verbally think through how you would solve the problem, what a solution might take.

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