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The elite's war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

okdoomer.io

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Re: The elite's war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

compete with them

No, no, I have it on good authority that the optimal strategy is to gang up on the employer and force them to meet the workers' demands. This will somehow make the employer more competitive, rather than less, and will not in any way incentivize outsourcing and automation at the cost of the domestic jobs in question. I read it on HN, so it must be true.

There is always an exchange of good and bad deeds between employees and employers. If you are a dick you should be treated as such. If you are a saint you should be too! You never just go to war with your employer or your employees.

I had one employer who would sometimes get stuck in a loop thanking me for what I've done, how embarrassed he was he couldn't pay me more and that he could never do what I did for such little money. I would mock him by listing the instances of terrible things that would have happened if I wasn't there. If he called me right now, years later, I would do what I could to keep his ship afloat just because the idea of having to fire people haunts him in his sleep.

My previous manager asked me to do an extra shift one time. I told him I understand why he asked it but that this must never happen again. Before that I told him that he couldn't just schedule an extra shift but that he should ask me first. If the place burned down around me I would use it to light my cigar after casually tossing my coat over my arm.

Re: The elite's war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#162
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the orthodox Marxism still practiced by some Trotskyites, the factory worker is seen as a uniquely revolutionary class because of (1) the discipline that comes from factory work and (2) the factory as itself as a nexus of revolution: workers can organize there and ultimately seize control of the means of production. A knowledge worker who works at home on cloud servers has no spatial nexus to control. All communic…

Knowledge workers can seize things to a certain extent. Upper management (and even lower management in some cases) don't control or even have ready access to critical cloud credentials. Sure, executives can call the cloud provider and gain access, but not before significant damage to the business can be done. And regardless, that's not much different than factory workers getting the police called on them by the facto…

>Knowledge workers can seize things to a certain extent.

Of course they can. Let's say workers group together and take the website down which tanks the business completely rendering the business owner broke and the workers unemployed. Then what? Who's gonna hire you as part of that grop of revolutionaries who took down a business?

You want unionization per sector with the blessing of legal authorities, and collective protest per industry, not per company.

Re: The elite's war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#163

I don’t really buy the argument. If commercial RE crashes, that means what, people take a 20% haircut on converting the buildings to condos and/or just selling for the value of the land? We are still seeing unprecedented housing shortages, which puts a pretty high floor on how much l “downtown” land values will crash.

Converting offices to condos is for practical purposes illegal due to the very different regulations.

You can tear the buildings down and build new ones, but that will take a decade to get permitted, if you're in a construction permissive city.

Re: The elite's war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#164
post #157

This isn't particularly well-argued. Just a lot of handwavy grievance about "elites" as though there's some kind of coordinated conspiracy.

The article is not well argued, yes. But there is direct evidence that politicians are influencing corporations to alter return to office policies: - Mayor of SF asking businesses to pledge to implement RTO policies: https://sfist.com/2022/03/03/mayor-breed-would-like-you-back... - Mayor of NYC basically doing the same: https://archive.is/si6xd

Happened in Redmond too

Re: The elite's war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like often article-writers miss the fact of people like your boss: some people just legitimately like being in an office and there's no conspiracy to speak of. As someone who likes being in an office, I personally feel that everyone becoming permanent WFH basement gremlins is a bad thing overall. Human contact is a good thing , and my observations of people who are 100% WFH is that they almost never interact w…

You do realize that people who WFH have friends and communities outside of work, right?

Quite often, the bosses don’t. Their social circle is the company and that’s partly why they so desperately want back in the office.

Re: The elite's war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#166
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that lots of wealth capital (both personal and corporate) is tied up in commercial real estate. It’s the reason everyone from Martha Stewart to Musk to hedge fund managers are screaming about how “unethical” remote work is. They literally can’t afford to have those buildings sit empty, so they will have to force the peons back into them by any means necessary.

Peonage, also called debt slavery or debt servitude, is a system where an employer compels a worker to pay off a debt with work. Legally, peonage was outlawed by Congress in 1867.

Today we just call it wage garnishment. We seem to often gain rights by just moving around the specific parties involve through the transitive property, rather than actually seeing significant change from the status quo.

Re: The elite's war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#167
This article dresses up truth in class warfare costume:

Companies and investors who own commercial real estate are facing a loss.

The thought is if people have to go back to the office, the commercial real estate is worth more, so there is incentive to return to the office.

I suspect we're way past the point where a work from the office mandate is going to make any measurable difference in property value. CEOs sitting on big rents and big buildings should start preparing their investors and boards for the inevitable loss and not lose sign of this:

Your competitors without big real estate costs are in a much better competitive position.

Re: The elite's war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#168
>It’s about real estate. That's it.

I don't think that is it. Most companies would be glad to cut down on office space. Certainly some companies have a direct interest in having office space, but most clearly do not.

To me it seems to be more about controlling your employees, which is easiest to do by proximity.

Re: The elite's war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#169
post #24

How are "the elite" forcing companies that do not own real estate and who rent their office space to mandate RTO? How are they forcing these companies to renew their leases when they expire?

The big fortune 100 tech companies are also commercial real estate owners and landlords. Look at all the buildings that Amazon owns and subleases in Seattle.

Those executives absolutely have an incentive to be pushing RTO because of their commercial real estate risk.

They also have an outsized bullhorn and the industry tends to watch what they do and report over what they do, and they have PR budgets which can get articles written the way they want. Bezos outright owns the WaPo.

Further down the ladder that PR will land on businesses where it just reinforces the attitudes of management towards RTO and gives them arguments to make in meetings. The people in those meetings don't necessarily have any skin in the commercial real estate game, but if they've spent the past 3 years reading articles about remote work and RTO published in the business press influenced by those who do have a whole lot of skin in the game, how do you attribute causality?

They way I'd look at it is that you can't take it in isolation and you need to step outside of naive root cause analysis that looks at the manager in the company who has no skin in the game and says that they can't possibly be influenced by the commercial real estate issues. For any individual "atom" of a manager in this analysis their own biases will more strongly influence what they're doing, but everyone in that room has been reading the same articles, and industrial propaganda and PR actually is effective at shaping attitudes. They are blowing on the dice, or turning up the temperature, or whatever analogy you like that draws a parallel to statistical mechanics and the bulk behavior of matter in the presence of individual randomness.

Re: The elite's war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#170
post #24

How are "the elite" forcing companies that do not own real estate and who rent their office space to mandate RTO? How are they forcing these companies to renew their leases when they expire?

Shareholders, local/state governments that are basically in the grip of developers and real estate investors/landlords, Wall Street, cocktail parties, (bad) middle managers rioting, the feeling that if your underlings have all the freedoms you have they're less like underlings and more like peers, the usual class warfare stuff.

Exactly.

Unlike the caricature naive people believe it to be, such real world conspiracies seldom are about some shady guys meeting in a secret underground lair. That's so third world coup style.

More like a huge net, cast by powerful people scratching each other's back, lobbying, advertising, and PR budgets, the media getting on with the program, and of course politicians, middle managers, academics, journalists, and other such types quickly figuring out the right things to say and the right signals to sent that would advance their careers - and trying to whip the majority into going there to.

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