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80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

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Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#161

Post by mathewsanders »

renecito wrote: post #155
troupe wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it funny that when people were required to be home, employers talked about what great productivity they were getting with people at home. Then when it isn't required anymore, they want everyone back in the office for...productivity. My guess is that most employers really have no way to measure if an employee is being productive or not so managers are just reporting what makes them look good...and now we are ba…

I wonder how much of is just about getting local cities tax breaks, or even state taxes in some cases. Governments are not ready for the majority of people having the freedom to work anywhere. The whole foundation of our local and state governments control is based on manageable demographics, we are red or blue, we embrace the old or the new ways, etc., they are not ready for a sudden change in the mix, every local g…

Our company is mandating a 3-day in office starting soon.

I’m a bit of an exception because I’m in a city that only has a couple hundred employees, but when I do return to the office, it won’t be to collaborate with teammates: I will be joining zoom calls with people in other cities (which was my day-to-day pre-pandemic). Pre pandemic I would travel every 2-weeks to company HQ to be in-person for demo with stakeholders and sprint planning, but even then many people would join via zoom anyway.

I don’t think return for office has anything to do with productivity and more about anxiety around investments in commercial real estate.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#162

Post by schwartzworld »

sharts wrote: post #49
darth_avocado wrote: post #18

They’re not regretting the decisions. They’re regretting the fact their poor decision making capabilities are on full display. Most of these “bosses” would still be caught doubling down on the RTO narrative and threatening people to show up to work. Bosses with Elon style of management, please take a warning. A weekly email threatening to fire people if they don’t show up in the office 5 days a week only works the fi…

Not only that but those that stay are the “yes” men/women who are either bootlickers or accept that they aren’t valued much and thus will put in minimal genuine effort and just comply with stupid directives to the letter. In the end you just don’t get that diversity of thought through disagreement/evolution/personal ownership that you otherwise get when people feel comfortable enough to genuinely show up and be missi…

I would bet lots of those who stay are the visa slaves who aren't as comfortable with the threat of unemployment as domestic workers would be.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#163

Post by jaculabilis »

adamkf wrote: post #26

Here's the quote from the [actual whitepaper]( https://envoy.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Workplace_Data_... ) from Envoy that this article references: > 80% of executives say they would have approached their company’s return-to-office strategy differently if they had access to workplace data to inform their decision-making. Envoy's not exactly an unbiased source here, since they sell software to collect this data.

So what this really says is that 80% of executives would have used a different approach if they had data about the subject. Which... is pretty lackluster? If you don't change your strategy in response to new data, you're bad at your job.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#164

Post by jurassic »

Alupis wrote: post #146
atleastoptimal wrote: post #15

I understand the merits of WFH and in-person work. One thing that is however funny is the guilt tripping used by employers who have this straw-man version of a lazy WFH employee, and more so, employers who have a delusion that their workplace is important enough that people need to sacrifice a large portion of their lives just for the opportunity to be there in person. 90% of jobs aren't people's "passions" and have…

There's a lot of nuance that isn't discussed in the WFH circles. I don't believe the cynical claims some offer of VC's losing out on real estate deals, or mid-level managers needing to boost their butts-in-seats numbers or whatever. For some, perhaps, but on average? What percentage of long-distance relationships work out long-term? Do you become more or less close with friends after they move out of town? Do you sti…

The sweet spot in my experience has been for WFH orgs to get together periodically for extended offsites. A one week gathering twice a year has forged some incredible bonds on my distributed team.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#165

Post by yieldcrv »

troupe wrote: post #48
atleastoptimal wrote: post #15

I understand the merits of WFH and in-person work. One thing that is however funny is the guilt tripping used by employers who have this straw-man version of a lazy WFH employee, and more so, employers who have a delusion that their workplace is important enough that people need to sacrifice a large portion of their lives just for the opportunity to be there in person. 90% of jobs aren't people's "passions" and have…

I find it funny that when people were required to be home, employers talked about what great productivity they were getting with people at home. Then when it isn't required anymore, they want everyone back in the office for...productivity. My guess is that most employers really have no way to measure if an employee is being productive or not so managers are just reporting what makes them look good...and now we are ba…

I’ve started talking about crystals to attract hot chicks that are already into crystals. Many are, or want to believe, just like researchers want to believe in a room temperature superconductor.

The alpha is that pedantic and over-analytical guys dismiss crystal energy at the expense of their reproductive opportunities, and the way around it is literally just not doing that.

One thing I quickly noticed is that the purpose of all crystals are expected to be the same.

“It absorbs energy and gives out good energy”

So I same the same thing everytime.

Employers must be encountering something similar from some form of stakeholder, such as the board for an analogous self preservation or reproductive opportunity, so the answer is always “increase productivity” every time.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#166

Post by MBCook »

rabuse wrote: post #68
mkl95 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My guess is that most employers really have no way to measure if an employee is being productive or not so managers are just reporting what makes them look good...and now we are back to where managers will look better with lots of people running around the office. My guess is that CEOs and VCs have some obscure reason to force people back into the office. Perhaps related to real estate, especially considering how h…

I honestly think it's mostly a huge ego boost to flex with. "Look at how GIANT our new billion dollar HQ is, and look at all of these people working for ME!"

Don’t forget that a lot of offices are leased for many years or even purchased/built.

Do you know what looks REALLY bad? A giant fancy office with five people in it.

Better force people to fill it up. We are stuck, we spent the money, can’t have it look bad.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#168

Post by placesalt »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #15

I understand the merits of WFH and in-person work. One thing that is however funny is the guilt tripping used by employers who have this straw-man version of a lazy WFH employee, and more so, employers who have a delusion that their workplace is important enough that people need to sacrifice a large portion of their lives just for the opportunity to be there in person. 90% of jobs aren't people's "passions" and have…

> 90% of jobs aren't people's "passions" and have no chance at becoming some big world changing venture. Lots of employers like to delude themselves that their company is some big important, cutting-edge enterprise that's making a real impact in the world.

They're not completely to blame; the hordes of people who claim their 'passion' is analyzing widget sales or what have you share some of it. Going along with what are essentially lies about motivations to fit in with the perceived trends of the crowd is understandable (people want to get and keep jobs), but still immoral. And, n=1, but in my experience, it isn't actually necessary.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#169

Post by MBCook »

mathewsanders wrote: post #161
renecito wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much of is just about getting local cities tax breaks, or even state taxes in some cases. Governments are not ready for the majority of people having the freedom to work anywhere. The whole foundation of our local and state governments control is based on manageable demographics, we are red or blue, we embrace the old or the new ways, etc., they are not ready for a sudden change in the mix, every local g…

Our company is mandating a 3-day in office starting soon. I’m a bit of an exception because I’m in a city that only has a couple hundred employees, but when I do return to the office, it won’t be to collaborate with teammates: I will be joining zoom calls with people in other cities (which was my day-to-day pre-pandemic). Pre pandemic I would travel every 2-weeks to company HQ to be in-person for demo with stakeholde…

The few times I’ve been back it’s worse. Since everyone is on zoom meetings anyway, everyone is just talking all day long making it hard for the other people on zoom meetings at the office to hear what they’re doing. So productivity actually goes down.

All of which makes things worse for the people at home on the zoom meetings.

As soon as a significant fraction of your employees aren’t in office, it starts to become a productivity problem to force people to stay! Well, unless you gave everyone their individual offices with doors. But you can’t do that can you. Because then what would make the senior people special? So you have to use cubes so everyone can hear each other on zoom calls.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#170

Post by userbinator »

lamontcg wrote: post #94
troupe wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it funny that when people were required to be home, employers talked about what great productivity they were getting with people at home. Then when it isn't required anymore, they want everyone back in the office for...productivity. My guess is that most employers really have no way to measure if an employee is being productive or not so managers are just reporting what makes them look good...and now we are ba…

> I find it funny that when people were required to be home, employers talked about what great productivity they were getting with people at home. Then when it isn't required anymore, they want everyone back in the office for...productivity. The decades of evidence that open office plans are utter shit for productivity already proved that the emperor wears no clothes and they have no idea what makes for better produc…

The only real reason for open offices is cost saving. Everything else is just an excuse to make it not seem like it is.
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