Live data from Hacker News

TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

pr.tsmc.com

161–170 of 526 posts

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#161
post #149

Along with (hopefully) that french startup (Mistral) founded by the LLaMA guys, the EU is putting together the pieces they need to keep up with AI and maintain their ability to leverage their control mechanisms upon the FAANGS. Realpolitk wise they absolutely cannot risk regulatory capture to a few select firms on the west coast of the USA. Altman himself threatened (for a brief period) to cut off GPT to the EU after…

The fab is supposed to supply mainly the automotive industry, who made the mistake of cancelling their orders during Corona and were then surprised to find that the capacities were allocated elsewhere when they wanted to order again. They will still have the same problem, but they don't think that far ahead.

It isn't even thinking ahead. It is pure, plain and simple arrogance, of the most despicable and stupid kind. The German auto producers are used to be able to strong-arm politicians and their suppliers. What they say goes, because usually they can threaten whole regions with unemployment and whole companies (the ones that produce car-parts such as seat cushions or engine parts mostly/only) with bankruptcy. Don't want to accept a mandatory 20% price reduction mid-contract? We'll just delay payment until you do, good luck surviving long enough for the courts to recognize your claim...

With chip makers, it is different, because chips can be used in lots of different products and there is lots of demand from all corners. So car makers tried their usual strong-arm tactics and failed miserably. Chips being a sellers market, after all. After which car makers went whining to their politician puppets, getting them to OK billions in subsidies for "supply chain security".

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#162
post #150

Along with (hopefully) that french startup (Mistral) founded by the LLaMA guys, the EU is putting together the pieces they need to keep up with AI and maintain their ability to leverage their control mechanisms upon the FAANGS. Realpolitk wise they absolutely cannot risk regulatory capture to a few select firms on the west coast of the USA. Altman himself threatened (for a brief period) to cut off GPT to the EU after…

Aren't LLMs potentially great to ward off language death due to their significant abilities to transpose ideas into different languages?

> Aren't LLMs potentially great to ward off language death due to their significant abilities to transpose ideas into different languages?

What do you mean?

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who don't understand what OP just wrote should look at what just happened to the South Korean semiconductor market. over 36% plunge in exports[] and that samsungs memory profit dropped 95%[]. Yes, they depend on ASML, but ASML itself was dependent on IP from TSMC engineers. TSMC already announced that they will stop applying for subsidies from the Chip Act[] in the US recently because the US keeps changing wha…

> the US has been talking about bombing TSMC themselves[] The U.S. said nothing of the sort. One Congressman, in the minority no less, did.

You can say this about any US policy, until it is officially announced. It turns out that the US gov has made all the moves to weaponize Taiwan and make it the center of a war against China, so what is the surprise that they will bomb Taiwan if needed?

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#164
post #3

Wonder if the Taiwanese govt at some point will step in and block these onshoring measures as a matter of national security. If countries are less reliant on manufacturing within Taiwan, its one less reason to stand up to Beijing's one China principle.

People who don't understand what OP just wrote should look at what just happened to the South Korean semiconductor market. over 36% plunge in exports[] and that samsungs memory profit dropped 95%[]. Yes, they depend on ASML, but ASML itself was dependent on IP from TSMC engineers. TSMC already announced that they will stop applying for subsidies from the Chip Act[] in the US recently because the US keeps changing wha…

> People who don't understand what OP just wrote should look at what just happened to the South Korean semiconductor market. over 36% plunge in exports[] and that samsungs memory profit dropped 95%.

Is demand for electronics finally dropping? I want to be able to buy a 3 year old Nvidia low-range GPU at below MSRP...

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#165

Along with (hopefully) that french startup (Mistral) founded by the LLaMA guys, the EU is putting together the pieces they need to keep up with AI and maintain their ability to leverage their control mechanisms upon the FAANGS. Realpolitk wise they absolutely cannot risk regulatory capture to a few select firms on the west coast of the USA. Altman himself threatened (for a brief period) to cut off GPT to the EU after…

Why would be the language death bad. Imho, from practical point of view it doesn't make sense to have multiple languages, or?

Kids cannot use foreign language tools to their full abilities. However, if ChatGPT is good for english only, it might stimulate some competition for providing similar service in the local language. I won't mind it, tbh.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strategically, if Germany gets too much on its territory the other EU countries should worry, especially France and Italy.

France has Mistral, it might actually be a perfect 1-2 EU combo, the French do the aesthetics and the Germans do the engineering.

[flagged]

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#167
post #161
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fab is supposed to supply mainly the automotive industry, who made the mistake of cancelling their orders during Corona and were then surprised to find that the capacities were allocated elsewhere when they wanted to order again. They will still have the same problem, but they don't think that far ahead.

It isn't even thinking ahead. It is pure, plain and simple arrogance, of the most despicable and stupid kind. The German auto producers are used to be able to strong-arm politicians and their suppliers. What they say goes, because usually they can threaten whole regions with unemployment and whole companies (the ones that produce car-parts such as seat cushions or engine parts mostly/only) with bankruptcy. Don't want…

The nice thing about this situation and one that is not appreciated by enough people in the economy is that it's not a zero sum game.

Two things can be true at the same time!

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#168
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. All the big economic success was due to state coordination and intervention, not (neo-)liberalism. Liberalism might work for a smaller country that becomes a trading hub (like Singapore), and uses low taxes as a sort of parasitic strategy; that's why it cannot be replicated by large countries. I am glad that Germany is coming to their senses and finally rejecting neoliberalism. Now if only Eurozone leadershi…

First, what is your definition of neoliberalism? Second, why do you think a country like Germany (where the ratio of government expenditure to GDP is around 50%) can be classified as “neoliberal” in the sense you mean it?

Maybe because they replaced lots of social security features by private company insurances.

Health care and pensions cover hardly all your needs and need to be supplemented by private insurances.

They privatised or try to privatise essential services like postal services, telecommunications and railroads.

They got rid of government experts in favor of external private company "experts". In combination with construction contracts being put out to tender this leads to failures like the BER airport. All these private companies weren't able to built and airport that complies with the building regulations. So they either aren't as effective as neoliberlism claims or they exploited the lack of governmental oversight to get more money.

Not to mention the millions politicians like Ursula vin der Leyen gave to companies like McKinsey to advise on the modernisations of the Armed Forces which lead to the opposite.

They are neoliberal, it's just isn't so easy to sell it to the people as something positive. That's why the SPD was needed to implement a wage raise killer like Hartz IV, because people thought of the SPD as a social party working for the workers.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#169
This is quite a surprise. Germany is currently reeling from poor economic conditions including high inflation rates, skyrocketing energy costs, a measure of pessimistic disillusionment vis-a-vis their elected leadership, etc. This is also related to a general sense that businesses are exiting the German market due to burdensome regulations and rising cost of doing business (in large part due to spiraling energy costs). I am no expert, but this announcement stands in stark contrast to said premises--and I can't help but wonder if this move might not be at least in part politically motivated. The facts as they currently stand: Germany considers itself a trading partner with China, but is aware of the rising imbalance in competitiveness (significantly due to phasing out of ICE vehicle manufacturing, where they held a significant lead, and simultaneous phasing in of BEV manufacturing, where China holds significant advantages, both in accrued institutional knowledge and access to requisite raw materials). At the same time, the German leadership coalition has been frustrated by the rising pushback against the Green transformation of the German economy, which they view as non negotiable, but is objectively a non-trivial factor of the economic malaise.

Let's say TSMC does manage to build a fab before 2027 (the year China is expected to complete the modernization of their military and launch their campaign against the island of Formosa's governing body, aka the Taiwanese government). How might such an extravagant outlay of investment funds (which could significantly improve the economic outlook in Germany and take a lot of pressure off the existing government) impact Germany's relationship with China in the crucial near term (the next few years)?

Let's not forget, for decades the CCP worked strategically on bringing about the reverse: isolating the ROC government by engaging in lending practices that sometimes resulted in situations where they could use this leverage to promote a gradual deprivation of the ROC's status as an officially recognized governing body (which has shrunk over the years to a mere 11 or even fewer nations).

Of course it isn't as if Germany's support would significantly affect the CCP's (meaning, Xi Jinping's) plans of Chinese Rejuvenation (wherein bringing Taiwan under heel is a non negotiable component), considering that even the US' increasingly overt support has had no effect on what the CCP has always viewed as an inevitability. Conversely, as the Ukraine debacle has indisputably demonstrated, even indirect support (especially from a Western ally) has a profoundly disruptive effect on the expected development and eventual outcome of any military engagement.

Also, as some may still remember, one of the principal factors that led to China's significant manufacturing modernization was a somewhat similar deal, wherein China "bailed out" a prominent US manufacturer (Boeing?) that was close to bankruptcy, by agreeing to purchase several billion dollars' worth of civilian airplanes, and in return being handed the high precision tooling infrastructure that's indispensable in the manufacture of high tech machinery (because of the military/national security implications, this required political support at the highest levels of government, meaning presidential and bipartisan support). I am suggesting this could be analogous, differing chiefly in the type of benefit that is gained by the other party, as a result. For China, it was high precision tools, while for the 23 million inhabitants of the island of Formosa (who as a group, if not a sovereign nation already dominate the semiconductor industry) it may well be a tactically swift reversal in international standing (something that barely registered at all until very recently, but then rapidly expanded into an all encompassing existential crisis rivaling their defeat at the hands of the Chinese communists, 70 years prior).

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#170
post #3

Wonder if the Taiwanese govt at some point will step in and block these onshoring measures as a matter of national security. If countries are less reliant on manufacturing within Taiwan, its one less reason to stand up to Beijing's one China principle.

It is not just Taiwan's advanced manufacturing that is critical to the free world — an enormous amount of shipping for Japan also goes through the Straits Of Taiwan. This is just part of the reason that the US Navy frequently runs freedom of navigation exercises through those waters.

Mere reduction of the criticality of Taiwan's advanced manufacturing will not eliminate Taiwan's geostrategic importance.

Plus, the CCP's insistence on being an expansionist authoritarian state is reason enough to contain that expansion, to prevent further resource gains.

Post reply on HN