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Why I Am Leaving Goldman Sachs

nytimes.com

161–170 of 268 posts

Re: Why I Am Leaving Goldman Sachs

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HackerNews got me - moving to a tech firm

Sign of the tech bubble? Financiers jumping to tech companies? The chemists and high school teachers turned ninja hax0r can't be far off. Someone please warn me so I can short XLK.

To me, that's just reallocating resources. Any efficient system of capitalism will see that happening.

However IPO's with unreasonable valuations, and investments greater than what's needed is a pretty good sign of bubble. So i'll let linkedin, and facebook make me scared of a bubble. Not to mention the startup Color.

Re: Why I Am Leaving Goldman Sachs

#163
post #69

It's interesting how the tone of this article is almost exactly the same as the one about the Microsoft employee that recently quit Google. Something happens to companies as they get larger, where the culture of a company starts dying from a death-by-a-thousand-cuts, and then they start promoting the wrong people into upper management that seem to really poison a very good company culture. It sounds like Goldman Sach…

> Something happens to companies as they get larger... I think promotion happens. When you're a fresh grad right out-of-college and the Managing Director says "client is our #1 priority", you take it to heart. That's your new mantra now. Nine years later, when the same Director, now promoted to the Board says the same line, you groan inside because you know exactly how often he calls his clients muppets. Slowly you b…

I agree with your point that part of the cause is getting more senior and actually watching the lies. But I don't accept that we should condone that behavior.

Full disclosure: I left Micosoft last year after I long debated the trade offs of starting my career over. I was a "top performer" and Microsoft makes a point of telling the many people like me to stick around for all sorts of reasons. Deferred compensation. Trajectory. Influence. Etc.

But then I actually got into the VP's circle and didn't like what I saw. This smooth-talking, confident leader within Office was some kind of sociopath. He and his comrades snickered after a middle manager announced he would put the blame on someone for failing to deliver a major feature. I was confused when it happened. Like one big inside joke, that would be my initiation.

This feature was promised three years ago to the previous President of the division, and it turned out to be a top priority for the incoming president. Well, the middle manager miscalculated and let it slip. We've all done this to some degree-- answer an email late, forget to deliver on a request -- it's part of being an engineer working with people. But the middle manager had done it at a big scale and was wrong.

Rather than admit it because that would end his career (as I'll explain in a minute), he threw someone else under the bus. He asked this senior PM to take the project over. Rather than give her support, he decided to undermine her. He had people give copious amounts of negative feedback on her specs, held back people from working with her, and lied about progress to management. He was setting her up to fail so he could swoop in and deliver it after she failed without the wrath of being late. We've all seen managers excuse being late because of low performers. The VP and his manager needed to construct a low performer. And all he had to do was signal to the herd to stay away from her with all the negative feedback.

The hell they put her through so they could save their asses. And the fucking snicker. She was a warm, smart, expert in this feature and had she been allowed to work she would have outdone the middle manager. But the middle manager was ambitious. And the VP seemed to like watching people destroy their lives. And he liked loyalty. He knew if he could get dirt on his managers he would keep them for a long time.

I try to be a good person. I try to be honest. I try to stand up for people. But I couldn't help her. For a year I gave as much moral support as I could without the inner circle knowing. But the politics were too thick and toxic to touch. I watched her nervous breakdown. And then I knew I had to leave. Maybe it really was this one bad team. But this was the rising star VP. If this is how he succeeded then the others VPs would have to eventually. And the middle manager was his replacement.

So, I got a different job. I took 3 months to travel in Europe to wash off the filth. And I checked in with my friend, and am pleased to hear that she has landed on her feet and is doing much better. At my current job the people argue about -- gasp -- the customer. What a difference.

But I am still angry that evil people -- the VP, the middle managers -- are allowed to continue. I don't agree we're supposed to be quiet. Food critics used to be afraid of giving bad reviews because they wouldn't be allowed to keep their jobs (in local markets unless you were someone politics would prevail). Now we have Yelp. Really bad restaurants should have a hard time of hiding. I wish there was something like that for managers and companies without blowback. I wish there was a way to give feedback on LinkedIn. The middle manager's profile is really funny to read. Apparently he runs all of big data at Microsoft. From Office. As a middle manager.

Anyway, my point is there is opportunity to expose evil people and good people in their careers. We should find a way to do it safely. People should have an incentive to be good.

EDIT: grammar mistakes

Re: Why I Am Leaving Goldman Sachs

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HackerNews got me - moving to a tech firm

What kind of work will you be doing? I'm in a similar situation (M&A side though), and I'm not sure what kind of value I could bring to a tech firm without the coding skills that are needed in a early stage startup.

Big tech companies are buying up startups left and right. I am guessing they have some ex-M&A guys on staff (Note: The OP said that he was moving to tech, not necessarily a startup)

Re: Why I Am Leaving Goldman Sachs

#165
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think being publicly-traded companies is the root of the problem here. When a company goes public, it adopts one (and only one) goal: Maximize shareholder value. When that's the priority, it naturally follows that the sharks take over the waters. This is not a tough leap of logic, and it's repeated in corporate culture constantly. We need a famous person to quote it succinctly so that it is enshrined as a co…

I once worked for a guy who was considering incorporating his two-person company. His investors were mostly family and professional contacts. One day he was talking about how it would limit his decision-making because of his obligation to always do what was most profitable for the shareholders. He was potentially facing a choice between selling out to a much larger company or staying independent so he could develop t…

Would love to know that to

Any lawyers here with knowlege on responsibilities of the management team to the shareholders ?

Re: Why I Am Leaving Goldman Sachs

#166
I used to work for Lehman Brothers; since then I've worked for Amazon and Google in product capacities. (I was a PM before I went to MBA and then LB.)

The biggest problem was that there's little incentive in financial products to pursue true creativity or innovation that generates value for your clients. Both the market and the regulatory climate make it very hard, and very risky, to develop and market new products. It's a lot easier to just find innovative ways to strip value from your clients, or make new securities look a lot like old securities.

My role at Lehman involved helping issuers structure securities for various capital markets. I did not see us openly fleecing clients in the style of Enron or this Goldman article, but it was pretty clear that some kinds of deals were far more profitable for the firm than others, and it was going to be in your interest to promote those kinds of transaction. It's the people at the top who set the incentives and set the culture of a firm, and things will only generally get worse as they trickle down the structure to individual teams who are more interested in their personal comp than the overall corporate brand.

One of the main reasons I wanted to go back to tech from finance was that I felt like there's at least a lot of tech companies (Amazon and Google included) where delivering true value to the end user is the primary value, and how you get promoted and paid. I did not feel that was the case on Wall Street; it was more important how many fees your team brought in than whether the issuers (clients) were still in business a year later.

Re: Why I Am Leaving Goldman Sachs

#167
post #113

The most amusing thing I find about Goldman Sachs, is their refusal to put their name on their building. They built a brand new 43 floor office building right across the street from Ground Zero to serve as their new headquarters, and their name is no where on the building. It makes one think that they are hiding -- perhaps they're ashamed of themselves?

That is normal for all sorts of financial organizations, to not put the name on an office building. If they do, they get customers wandering into the lobby thinking it's a retail branch looking for services. Bigger problem for banks, but investment firms get that too. I once worked for Citibank in an owned but unlabeled building.

Basically it's the same reason that Wal-Mart doesn't put its name on a distribution warehouse facility. People would try to walk in thinking it's a store.

Re: Why I Am Leaving Goldman Sachs

#169
post #77
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think that you're completely missing the point in defending Google and maybe Goldman Sachs by saying that their decisions are ok because they are made rationally. Rationality is emotionless and mechanical. It's about making a reasonable decision based on whatever information is available to you. However, rational decisions do not involve morals, culture, or feelings. This is exactly what companies like Googl…

Rationality can serve whatever values you have. You can rationally optimize the amount of love, happiness, and fuzzy puppies in the world if you want to. You can also rationally strive to keep a company efficient and non-evil. But the bigger it gets, the harder that gets, modulo economies of scale.

Agreed. At certain scales, it no longer makes sense to give primary mover status to humans within institutions. It is important to realize that there are several mechanisms within institutions that alter the values they serve. It makes more sense to treat them as black boxes and reason about outcomes rather than intentions.

Re: Why I Am Leaving Goldman Sachs

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that reddit IAmA post is not very convincing. Considering it attempts to confirm every single /r/politics stereotype about the evil Koch Industries, I'm inclined to believe guilty_of_innocence's theory that it's a fake and a troll.

Maybe, since he was willing to name his employers, who happen to be despised in liberal circles. OTOH, there is a lot of PR spending on social media (e.g.: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/08/us/politics/obama-campaign... ), so it wouldn't surprise me if Goldman has hired people to smear Smith on forums like this one.

Can you imagine yourself paying someone to smear others on a forum? What if you really believed in your own cause? What if it cost you a trivial proportion of your buckets of money, and if you had legions of lawyers able to write terrifying NDAs? What if you had a history of being unscrupulous in countless other contexts?

What if all it took to "solve the problem" were a few choice words said to the right person?

This kind of smearing is almost certainly happening all over the place because there is tons of motive, tons of opportunity, and many people with a habit of being unscrupulous.

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