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x86 is dead, long live x86

engineering.mercari.com

161–170 of 172 posts

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is doing what people hated Microsoft for. It's amazing that a closed ecosystem is so welcomed by Apple fans. But I suppose man has always been tribal.

Any closed ecosystem is annoying but I'm not going to complain very hard while their desktop market share is below 20-25%.

Desktop is becoming increasingly irrelevant. Most people don't even own one anymore. Apple is as close to WeChat as you can get in Western countries.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#162
post #72
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For open source applications it's generally pretty good. Closed source: not so much. qemu-x86_64 is probably the closest there is to Rosetta; it works fairly well and I think conceptually it's identical or similar to Rosetta, but I don't really know what the performance is like, and it's of course not as integrated/automatic as Rosetta.

Hadn't heard of qemu (in this context), I'll take a look, thank you!

It’s very slow, box86/box64/FEX might be better options if you want decent performance

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the new 128-core AMD server parts are on-par with ARM in terms of power efficiency and capable of more raw compute, it may even grow a bit. I think there's lots of room for ARM, Risc-V and x86_64 in the future. There's reasons to support any of them over the others. And given how well developer tool are getting support across them all, it may actually grow a lot. I think the down side is a lot of the secondary…

> I think the down side is a lot of the secondary compute accelerators, such as what intel is pushing and what the various ARM and Risc-V implementations include in practice. I’m curious why this is a downside. The current trends in computing is that we’re long past the point of single threaded compute. The first step of that was multi processor and multi core and that’ll continue with more and more dedicated and spe…

The specialized sub-processors are implemented differently, not always available, and not available 1:1 to compute nodes. If you're offering, for example, cloud compute... you can offer 4 cores pretty easily... but if there are 2 specialized sub-processors, then do you offer them, does this queue across all users/clients on that system or do you just block and pretend it doesn't exist. For Zen 4c, they're all general compute.

This means, practically speaking, you're only going to really have 1 host on a server that wants/needs these specialized sub-processors. Which means more space/heat/power for a single user/service. It's probably fine for some things, but far from ideal. This also doesn't get into software optimization and alternative paths where not available.

This gets far worse in the ARM space, as it seems every SOC does something different, which means it's often broken, or unusable if you're using a mainline OS/kernel and even then most software won't be optimized for it. At best, you can maybe playback 4k compressed video. At worst, you can't at all. Just speaking to the most common instance in that space, which is video compression, which is often built around closed drivers that mainline OSes (Ubuntu Server, Debian, etc) don't have in the box, and the vendor only supports a single version of a distro fork with no upgrade path.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#164

"The macOS (OS X) version of this game does not work on macOS Catalina (version 10.15) or later due to the removal of support for 32-bit-only apps" And that's why x86 is good.

I'm failing to see the connection, could you please elaborate?

[dead]

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#165

Why do these kinds of articles essentially refuse to admit RISC-V exists?

> Why do these kinds of articles essentially refuse to admit RISC-V exists? Because as much as I like RISC-V myself, it hasn't built up the scale needed to supplant x86/64 or ARM. It's still a long way to go before the following are achieved: - Similar/better performance to x86/64 or ARM, with at least 80% of their performance - Similar/lower prices compared against x86/64 or ARM - A win in either price-to-performanc…

>a long way to go

Veyron releases later this year. Ascalon next year.

It's going to get exciting.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#166
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in different worlds. All engineers I know have Macs and the ones that don’t have Linux. The one guy on my team who uses windows is a constant problem as he has to find work arounds for every process we have/service we build.

1. Build a pipeline with macOS in mind (because "All engineers I know have Macs") 2. Complain when the macOS-oriented process doesn't work for everyone.

It was actually built out with Linux in mind since that’s what everyone deploys to. Mac just happens to work flawlessly with Linux and windows doesn’t

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#167
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on a split team, Windows and macOS. We do straightforward Java work and most of the problems that we have are related to installing command-line software on Windows. Installing Postgres, Redis, etc. on Windows is wildly complicated compared to on macOS or Linux.

Tried WSL?

Yes it’s a constant source of problems. Trying to live share and get any actual work done leads to constant crashes, simply git cloning and trying to docker-compose and yarn install is a convoluted mess etc. windows is just not friendly to the kind of development common these days.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>chips like the 6502 have still been in active use (almost 50 years now) Also 8051 cores can still be found in modern products

8051s are just now getting phased out as control cores of IP blocks, which is pretty wild. The 32-bit ARM and RISC-V cores are small enough and easier to program.

ARM vs 8051 is a licensing fee thing usually. 8051 license terms are extremely generous compared to ARM as far as I know. RISC is a being explored more readily, but toolchains are not nearly as robust as arm/8051.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#169

I would just like to point out that that is not how the saying goes. When Queen Elizabeth died it would have been “the queen is dead, long live the king”, as the dead thing is the predecessor and the living thing is the one that follows it

no, the "saying" is "the king is dead, long live the king", because the "saying" uses the apparent absurdity of the king being dead and alive to illustrate the stability of the royal system: the people don't need to worry, they are never without a king.

yes, in a particular circumstance, if there happens to be a queen involved (rarer within agnatic primogeniture), then it would be spoken as you say, but that's not "the saying" that people generally quote.

Rarer still, but 2 Queens would have the same form as the saying, "the queen is dead, long live the queen", which I mention to mention, when the king is dead, if it's "long live the queen", it's not generally the king's spouse even if she was styled "queen", but would be some direct blood relative of the king such as his daughter. I think his wife would become Dowager Queen. The Dowager queen might rule as Regent if her children were not adults yet.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/agnatic

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#170

When I think about how long chips like the 6502 have still been in active use (almost 50 years now), it is hard to conceive of a world where there isn't a significant presence of x86 activity for the rest of my life. The majority of 'the market' may go elsewhere, but for a gazillion reasons, x86 will not be disappearing for quite a while. At this point it would honestly surprise me if we didn't at least have high qua…

>chips like the 6502 have still been in active use (almost 50 years now) Also 8051 cores can still be found in modern products

Just a few years back, I checked out datasheet for an IC encountered in an USB card reader (newly bought).

Turns out a 8051 core was included (iirc clocked @ ~30 MHz, to control jobs like light busy LED on card read/write ops, some bus arbitration / priority settings, power management or the like).

Made total sense to encounter an ancient, 'fast', tiny 8-bit core there, even though unexpected.

There must be (and will be) an endless list of products including tiny CPU cores like that (eg., RFID tags come to mind).

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