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A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

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Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#161

Post by ska »

maccard wrote: post #146
masklinn wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you pay $3K to $5K for a fridge today (for a fridge 2-3x as big as the 1950 fridge), do you get a better longer-lasting one? I'm not sure. One of the difficulties is it's become very hard to know if an item is more expensive because: - it's better quality - it's full of bullshit - it's marketing However 3-5k for a fridge is well into "professional kitchen commercial refrigerator / refrigerated cabinet" range. At…

You don't need to go to anywhere near that price to get before you hit a sweet spot. For like $600 including tax one of the biggest retailers in the UK will sell you the most energy efficient fridge on the market with a 5 year guarantee. Like most products, you're reaching diminishing returns at a certain point and that seems to be it as far as I can tell.

Isn’t the point of the OP that this “top of the line” fridge has poor ergonomics and features relative to the 70 year old one?

If true, that is at least interesting.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#162

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #101
starbugs wrote: post #3

> Thing is, producing crappy, cookie-cutter, uninspired, overpriced junk that falls apart within 5 years (generously speaking) pays more to the shareholders. That's how we got from there to here. This summarizes it quite well for me.

I mean, in general, things we buy today are a lot more "affordable" while being lower quality. Googling says the average cost of a refrigerator in 1950 was $250 to $400 (for 10 cubic feet -- a fridge today is 20 to 30 ft^3), which would be $3K to $5K in 2023 dollars. If you pay $3K to $5K for a fridge today (for a fridge 2-3x as big as the 1950 fridge), do you get a better longer-lasting one? I'm not sure.

Is there really a correlation between price and durability in appliances?

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#163

Post by photochemsyn »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #101
starbugs wrote: post #3

> Thing is, producing crappy, cookie-cutter, uninspired, overpriced junk that falls apart within 5 years (generously speaking) pays more to the shareholders. That's how we got from there to here. This summarizes it quite well for me.

I mean, in general, things we buy today are a lot more "affordable" while being lower quality. Googling says the average cost of a refrigerator in 1950 was $250 to $400 (for 10 cubic feet -- a fridge today is 20 to 30 ft^3), which would be $3K to $5K in 2023 dollars. If you pay $3K to $5K for a fridge today (for a fridge 2-3x as big as the 1950 fridge), do you get a better longer-lasting one? I'm not sure.

$4K will get you a nice solid-state (thermoelectric Peltier-effect refrigerant-free) research-grade fridge from Fischer Scientific, only 5.5 cubic feet though. Five-year warranty.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#164

Post by dragonwriter »

usefulcat wrote: post #119
bombcar wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is it - high quality stuff is often still made, but it's expensive and/or has other downsides that you really do need to be aware of. For example, commercial equipment is often bullet-proof and long-lived, but it can be louder than you'd want in a home kitchen. Commercial dish washers have no noise insulation, get hot, but can wash dishes so fast they can crack them from the temperature changes. Commercial ovens…

> Commercial ovens have no or minimal heat insulation This seems counter intuitive to me. Why would I not want more insulation in an oven that's going to be used a lot more? Seems like the cost of the insulation would be amortized more quickly than in a home kitchen, since a commercial oven is presumably being used a lot more?

Insulation distributes heat release over time, at the cost of temperature control. If its going to be used all the time, especially with multiple units, distributing release over time doesn’t change much but the delay between first turning it on and full effect to the surroundings, and the impact on temperature control is still there.

Insulation is only effective with intermittent use.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#165

Post by ethbr0 »

vsareto wrote: post #129
ethbr0 wrote: post #16

1950-1970 seems like a local optimum in UX that we've yet to surpass. My personal, completely-unsupported theory is it was a combination of 3 qualities. (1) New types of things, while unlike anything that came before, were still simple and understandable enough that someone without formal engineering training could understand their use and offer improvements . (2) Engineering was still seen as something that was appr…

It's iterative vs. up-front design. Or agile vs. waterfall. Designers shouldn't be doing iterative development when the supply chain works best with up-front design. They might be forced to because of how the business operates though. Iterative design and quicker product releases are a quicker feedback loop for the business. Most companies don't do grand designs or long-standing flagship products meant to be advertis…

IMHO, the progression that explains the current state of things is:

{vendor power decrease} led to {fierce competition on unit price} led to {consolidation of vendors and manufacturing cost minimization / volume maximization} led to {offshore lower cost manufacturing} led to {decreased design agility}

Consequently, there's less appetite for the type of wild experiments that characterized 1950s and 1960s design.

Low volume = not interested

It used to be that tech was insulated from the phenomenon, but I think Google shows the same progression playing out. It just took tech longer to consolidate.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#166

Post by maccard »

trwired wrote: post #70
Levitz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a consequence of constant R&D improvements. We can make appliances that last for 20 years or more, sure, but then when 20 years pass you have an appliance that is 20 years old and doesn't have any of that new stuff that came out in the last 20 years.

Which is fine by me. I need a fridge to cool things down, oven to heat them up and TV to show moving pictures, all without access to wifi and other bells and whistles modern appliances come with. Just the basic stuff that those appliances could handle 20 years ago. More doesn't always translate to better.

20 years ago with fridges is a bit of a funny one because by then most had gotten rid of the nasty CFC's. But, even at that, it looks like today's fridges are _orders of magnitude_ more efficient to run than those from about 15-20 years ago.

For an oven and hob, the basics haven't changed, but my previous flat had a $600 oven that was silent, leaked practically no heat, preheated in a couple of minutes and came with nest features like an auto switch off. My new home has a range from about 15 years ago that cost 3x that, takes 20 minutes to preheat, has massive cool spots in the oven, and is noisier than my dishwasher.

For TV's, 20 years ago we were using CRT's to drive 480 vertical lines for the most part. Nowadays, you can get a 1080p HDR led TV for $200 that used 1/3 of the power of the CRT.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#167

Post by schnable »

Levitz wrote: post #24
starbugs wrote: post #3

> Thing is, producing crappy, cookie-cutter, uninspired, overpriced junk that falls apart within 5 years (generously speaking) pays more to the shareholders. That's how we got from there to here. This summarizes it quite well for me.

It's also a consequence of constant R&D improvements. We can make appliances that last for 20 years or more, sure, but then when 20 years pass you have an appliance that is 20 years old and doesn't have any of that new stuff that came out in the last 20 years.

My house came with a Subzero Fridge from 1989. Works like a champ and has a great layout. The only feature I miss from the late model LG I had at my last house is on-door water and ice. The SZ has an interior ice maker that works great though. Hope it lasts another 30 years!

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#168

Post by ethbr0 »

UncleMeat wrote: post #98
ethbr0 wrote: post #16

1950-1970 seems like a local optimum in UX that we've yet to surpass. My personal, completely-unsupported theory is it was a combination of 3 qualities. (1) New types of things, while unlike anything that came before, were still simple and understandable enough that someone without formal engineering training could understand their use and offer improvements . (2) Engineering was still seen as something that was appr…

This fridge has an ice dispenser that requires you to use a tool to knock out a dozen ice cubes. My fridge has an ice dispenser that runs by itself until a big vessel of ice is full.

If you've never had an ice maker break on a fridge, then you're a lucky person.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#169

Post by rascul »

nickdothutton wrote: post #149

Next time you speak to an appliance repair guy, ask him what appliances he tends to visit most and least often and what the failure modes are.

You might also check with the delivery guys to see which brands come back the most. It was LG and Samsung when I was delivering and installing appliances.

Interesting thing about LG and Samsung is that they wouldn't accept returns. So if we delivered a brand new $4500 fridge but the fan didn't work when we plugged it in, then we took it back, talked to LG or Samsung, they told us to scrap it. So many easily and cheaply repairable Samsung and LG fridges went to scrap.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#170

Post by bbatha »

UncleMeat wrote: post #81
quartz wrote: post #25

Wait is this actually better? It's well presented in the ad but: - that removable veggie holder in the door looks crazy heavy and super awkward to put back in place (lining up at a sharp angle while gripping likely slick sides) - you have to open the refrigerator door to get at the freezer - the door compartments are narrow and probably can't handle odd sized containers - the shelves have holes in them so anything th…

Yeah the only two features that this fridge has that my fridge doesn't have are the pull out shelves and the removable bin for vegetables. I've got no idea why you'd really want the removable bin for vegetables. Carry all my veggies over to the sink first and then pick out the ones I want? And look at how small that thing is. Pull out shelves seem nice I guess, but they'd only be useful on lower shelves. My fridge se…

The pull out feature can be found on modern fridges, my previous LG fridge had it.
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