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At this company, we are family

pboyd.io

161–170 of 343 posts

Re: At this company, we are family

#161
post #129

I have seen reports of how things go in "old money" families. It doesn't look at all like the idea we make of families. They have access to vast amounts of resources, but family members don't have free access, far from it. There is council that decides how the funds are allocated, and when family members need some, they need to pitch how they are going to use it, and the expected returns. And if some family members a…

I'll vouch for similar experiences. My girlfriend was an executive assistant for multiple extremely wealthy people and saw these types of dynamics.

Re: At this company, we are family

#162
post #129

I have seen reports of how things go in "old money" families. It doesn't look at all like the idea we make of families. They have access to vast amounts of resources, but family members don't have free access, far from it. There is council that decides how the funds are allocated, and when family members need some, they need to pitch how they are going to use it, and the expected returns. And if some family members a…

That sounds fascinating, a whole world I know nothing about. Would you mind pointing me at where I could read more?

an heir to the Johnson & Johnson fortune filmed a documentary full of weird dynamics like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmlX3fLQrEc

Re: At this company, we are family

#163
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you so sarcastically point out, Americans give up many employment rights such as these. But it's not a one-way street. Being easier to fire makes American employees easier to hire, which is at least in part responsible for much higher pay in the USA compared to employee havens such as Europe. Furthermore, Americans tend to pay less tax. This isn't usually thought of as an employee rights issue, but in my mind, kee…

I think there's a middle ground between 'at-will employment capitalist hellscape' America and 'unable to be fired for months socialist hellscape' Europe.

Europe is much more of a middle ground than the opposite end of the spectrum.

Re: At this company, we are family

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, my father ran a small business (physical goods) and the people in his company were almost like a family. They felt as such, we treated them as such, it was amazing...brings a tear. I cannot emphasize this enough: It was far better relationship than resentful people on HN who are constantly complaining about work. They were happier as a whole.

Yes, sadly HN does seem to have a high proportion of folks who don't seem to understand the value of human connection. Everything is about technology. But not all mission statements are meaningless, and not all attempts by executives to create a family-like culture come from a bad place. Much of it comes from a good place, and it often works. But people who experience this I think are less likely to write on HN.

In my experience the focus is on human connection and that why this criticism is here - this is a business which necessarily can't prioritize human connection over profit trying to motivate people to work more. I think it's all about the outcomes - if you say "we're a family - we give plenty of second chances and then help people find a new job" is very different from "we're a family, so you need to work late tonight to get this project done"

Re: At this company, we are family

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you so sarcastically point out, Americans give up many employment rights such as these. But it's not a one-way street. Being easier to fire makes American employees easier to hire, which is at least in part responsible for much higher pay in the USA compared to employee havens such as Europe. Furthermore, Americans tend to pay less tax. This isn't usually thought of as an employee rights issue, but in my mind, kee…

I moved from the UK to the US recently and I'm not sure it's worth my while. Sure, I make more than 2x the salary, but the cost of living of a bit tech hub chips away most of it. Specially housing, which has increased dramatically since Covid. Even with my big fat tech salary, getting in the properly ladder seems to be years away. Pay less taxes? sure, but then you have to pay for everything and then some, and everyt…

The key is to not live in a tech hub or hcol area. You can make a great salary in the 200-300k range in lower cost of living areas and basically live like royalty.

Re: At this company, we are family

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is 20% up to 37k, 40% after that through 125k, and 45% after that. The US federal income tax is graduated much more finely but hits 12% between 10k and 42k and 22% from there to 89k, and 24% until 140k. This neglects any state income or sales tax as well.

The highest band is the only one that matters really, at least if we're talking about people that could freely choose to work in either country at top tech companies.

We are not concerned with people on high salaries. They can hopefully take care of themselves. Far more important to talk about low, average and median earners for I hope obvious reasons.

Re: At this company, we are family

#167
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you so sarcastically point out, Americans give up many employment rights such as these. But it's not a one-way street. Being easier to fire makes American employees easier to hire, which is at least in part responsible for much higher pay in the USA compared to employee havens such as Europe. Furthermore, Americans tend to pay less tax. This isn't usually thought of as an employee rights issue, but in my mind, kee…

I’m not convinced Americans pay less in taxes. When you include state taxes, social security from the employee and employer, then it starts to look like much less of a difference. When you include health insurance and college education, Americans get much less value. I do agree with the first half of your comment. American labor laws make it easier to fire which allows employers to take more risk in hiring.

> When you include state taxes, social security from the employee and employer, then it starts to look like much less of a difference.

When you count just the taxes we definitely pay less, especially in places like Texas and Florida. Well, I suppose there's the budget deficit and national debt to consider, though yours aren't exactly great either.

Well, except that there's a middle income trap with social security taxes. Basically, you want to be earning either a fair bit more than the social security cut-off, or to be on welfare. This is a terrible feature of our system.

> When you include health insurance and college education, Americans get much less value.

Honestly I'm starting to believe that our tertiary education system is vastly overvalued and that we can do much better for much less cost. Also, we have state schools that are very good and very cheap (by comparison to private ones anyways). I know people who have done very well in tech without having gone to school or graduated.

As for medical, the only coverage I want is catastrophic, and if I could just just get that then health care would be way cheaper. Health care providers generally have much lower prices when you have no insurance and pay out of pocket.

> I do agree with the first half of your comment. American labor laws make it easier to fire which allows employers to take more risk in hiring.

This is, on the whole, a very very nice feature. We also have better political speech rights than you. And... well, the whole Bill of Rights is a big deal, and European countries mostly don't have anything like it.

Re: At this company, we are family

#168
post #16

I especially like the very American "I ask that you refrain from discussing your termination with any social contacts made through your membership in the family [...] Failure to comply may result in your severance being terminated early or withheld entirely." In (most of ?) Europe, this severance is law and not debatable (as discovered by Musk recently), so this sentence would be outright illegal. You can talk about…

As you so sarcastically point out, Americans give up many employment rights such as these. But it's not a one-way street. Being easier to fire makes American employees easier to hire, which is at least in part responsible for much higher pay in the USA compared to employee havens such as Europe. Furthermore, Americans tend to pay less tax. This isn't usually thought of as an employee rights issue, but in my mind, kee…

Even further more, let us not forget many many employeers are single person business owners as well. So ease of firing is beneficial to the employer, who is also an american citizen with rights. For example, the right not to keep a dickhead on the payroll just cause the law says they have to

Re: At this company, we are family

#169
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you so sarcastically point out, Americans give up many employment rights such as these. But it's not a one-way street. Being easier to fire makes American employees easier to hire, which is at least in part responsible for much higher pay in the USA compared to employee havens such as Europe. Furthermore, Americans tend to pay less tax. This isn't usually thought of as an employee rights issue, but in my mind, kee…

I think there's a middle ground between 'at-will employment capitalist hellscape' America and 'unable to be fired for months socialist hellscape' Europe.

> 'unable to be fired for months socialist hellscape' Europe

A small handful of countries in Europe*

Re: At this company, we are family

#170

Actually, having integrity usually means being clear with people about budgetary decisions. The manipulative games just makes a firm look like its run by a cult of cons. Talent cutbacks are a loss of invested resources, and signals a failure to predict market trends. Sure it can also bump a laggard stock short-term, but ultimately signals other internal structural issues. Good luck, =)

I'm sure the same-y ness of the language everyone uses is the result of years of academic study in to how to frame things in a way that minimizes the immediate anger in the aggrieved population to minimize things like Going Postal, or sabotage. Of course they don't care about your feelings. As soon as someone is laid off they become a tremendous liability until they are out the door.

Actually, administrative privileges, email redirection, and building access revocation is often done prior to termination notice on Fridays.

This is also why layoffs during vacation windows and on remote sites is more common in IT.

Giving people time to deal with the emotional aspect is important. As exposing a vulnerable backbone to those motivated with grievances is unwise. Recall, 93% of breaches are internal, and proprietary assets tend to leak with layoffs.

It is never an easy task, but it can be done respectfully. =)

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