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Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#161

Post by layer8 »

myshpa wrote: post #141
Ygg2 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Such a load of bull. I'm sick of people ignoring the science. Educate yourself before writing anything next time What are chances that everyone globally will just switch to vegan diet to save on CO2 before 2050 or whatever end date? My fair estimate is zero. It's like wishing people aren't lazy or corrupt or that are more honest. To quote the poet "You don't get what you want".

Animal ag. is the leading culprit of the mess we're in (together with fossil fuels, ofc). The reason nobody at political level talks about it is because they feel it's a political suicide. If there was a significant portion of the population with changed habits (and numbers of vegans and vegetarians are rising fast in the last few years, so much that it's affecting sales of meat and dairy already), the abolishing of…

> If there was a significant portion of the population with changed habits

It’s exceedingly hard to get people to change habits. That’s why people in this thread don’t believe it will be a realistic (timely enough) solution if left up to mere individual decisions and not forced by systemic changes.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#162

Post by myshpa »

Ygg2 wrote: post #157
myshpa wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Animal ag. is the leading culprit of the mess we're in (together with fossil fuels, ofc). The reason nobody at political level talks about it is because they feel it's a political suicide. If there was a significant portion of the population with changed habits (and numbers of vegans and vegetarians are rising fast in the last few years, so much that it's affecting sales of meat and dairy already), the abolishing of…

> Animal ag. is the leading culprit of the mess we're in Citations needed. I think cars/trucks are much bigger polluters than cows. Not to mention the ubiquitous industries of plastic, steel and cement. https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector Points that Agriculture is 18.6% of total CO2 emissions. Out of which plants related emissions make like 4%. Granted, part of that is animal feed, but you'll have to repl…

Check this thread, I've already provided some of the sources.

All those sectors you've mentioned are absolutely problem too. Animal ag is 15-26% of our carbon budget, depending on which source you'll pick. That's already bigger that cement, and almost all of transport.

But animal ag is not just the emissions alone, and not only cows. Just with afforestation potential (land use change of pastures) we'd be able to store our entire 1.5C carbon budget.

This is a short (and incomplete) list of impacts of (animal & industrial) agriculture. It's imho clear from this list that animal ag (which is 75-80% of all ag) is the major culprit.

- Greenhouse gas emissions

- Deforestation (40+% of pastures used to be forests)

- Land degradation

- Water pollution

- Water overconsumption

- Loss of biodiversity

- Antibiotic resistance

- Ocean dead zones

- Inefficient land and resource use

- Ethical concerns regarding animal welfare

- Zoonotic diseases

- Air pollution

- Eutrophication

- Soil erosion

- High energy consumption

- Chemical runoff from pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers

- Destruction of habitats and ecosystems

- Inequality in global food distribution

- Public health risks from foodborne illnesses

- Nutrient pollution

- Strain on waste management systems

- Overfishing (40-70% of plankton gone, sharks 90% gone, fish almost gone)

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#163

Post by myshpa »

layer8 wrote: post #161
myshpa wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Animal ag. is the leading culprit of the mess we're in (together with fossil fuels, ofc). The reason nobody at political level talks about it is because they feel it's a political suicide. If there was a significant portion of the population with changed habits (and numbers of vegans and vegetarians are rising fast in the last few years, so much that it's affecting sales of meat and dairy already), the abolishing of…

> If there was a significant portion of the population with changed habits It’s exceedingly hard to get people to change habits. That’s why people in this thread don’t believe it will be a realistic (timely enough) solution if left up to mere individual decisions and not forced by systemic changes.

I don't believe in systemic changes coming on its own anymore. They will be forced by angry citizens, or not at all.

We've had 50+ years of climate change warnings, and nothing has really happened.

We're still not doing much... For example, the percentage of coal consumption is still around 82%, even after minor advancements in renewable sources.

Nobody at the political level is even talking about the need for a reduction in meat consumption, despite scientists being very vocal about this.

I simply feel that this is something that has to come (could come) from "down below."

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#164

Post by ChatGTP »

H8crilA wrote: post #7
ChatGTP wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What events don’t you see happening ? I can’t imagine things just “remaining the same” ?

What can't you imagine remaining the same?

Not sure if you’re trolling ?

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#165

Post by ant6n »

Aerroon wrote: post #154
eimrine wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the best anti-green argumentation I have ever seen. This is what a drop of water thinks about, which never considers itself a part of tsunami.

I hope it isn't only seen as anti-green. A big worry I have concerning climate change is that often I see discussions about climate policy ignore why our consumption is so high. It's not really the billionaires or greedy corporations. It's us. We're the ones consuming the bulk of these resources. And these policies will affect the poorest the most. On the other hand, I also worry about the impact of climate change. I…

Sustainable policies likely affect the poorest the least. Climate change will affect them the most.

The poorest already make a lot of sustainable choices: living in apartments in cities, taking public transportation, consuming less.

It’s possible that if carbon was heavily taxed, and some of the proceeds returned to everybody, that the poorest would actually be better off. Never mind the whole stopping the climate catastrophe threat.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#166

Post by myshpa »

Aerroon wrote: post #154
eimrine wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the best anti-green argumentation I have ever seen. This is what a drop of water thinks about, which never considers itself a part of tsunami.

I hope it isn't only seen as anti-green. A big worry I have concerning climate change is that often I see discussions about climate policy ignore why our consumption is so high. It's not really the billionaires or greedy corporations. It's us. We're the ones consuming the bulk of these resources. And these policies will affect the poorest the most. On the other hand, I also worry about the impact of climate change. I…

> It's us. We're the ones consuming the bulk of these resources

Agree.

> What if some process ends up accelerating things faster than expected?

I think we're already there (for example, in quite few studies 2030 is the new 2050 for 1.5C target). Sea temperatures (esp. in the nothern sea) and ice cover also seems to change faster than predicted (we could have ice free summers in the arctic before 2030, and thawing of greenland is also faster than expected).

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#167

Post by surgical_fire »

uxcolumbo wrote: post #98
anonzzzies wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine millions and millions of people doing this But they won't. Even here on HN, where some smart people roam, touching their meat (like, eating LESS of it, not quitting altogether) will make them into incoherent angry (I guess) men. And that's of course a big step, smaller steps are even not a thing for many people; not flying, no car, hell, here people even refuse to obey the law of not topping up (or filling)…

Yes true, but we have to keep trying to convince people in our circles. Otherwise we're effed. I would have hoped that especially this HN crowd would change their mind because it's quite clear and logical that not consuming meat and dairy will mean requiring fewer resources and producing less pollution.

A lot of people just don't care.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#168

Post by [deleted] »

pyrale wrote: post #152
psychphysic wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for posting the link so I could see the article. I did only skim it, and I'm surprised. I don't think it's an unreasonable criticism for 1997. But that's over a quarter of a century ago. He accepts CO2 is probably released by humans and apparently at a rate the sinks can't cope. He accepts that CO2 and other greenhouse gasses can lead to warming. But says that the data thus far had not borne out global warming…

For those who didn't read the article: > The global-warming hypothesis, however, is no longer tenable. Scientists have been able to test it carefully, and it does not hold up. The author is very far from saying we don't have enough evidence. He claims that scientists had collected enough evidence to dismiss the theory. Which is in hindsight, quite obviously, a lie.

[deleted]

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#169

Post by croes »

audessuscest wrote: post #92
croes wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

World hunger is on the rise. I'm full, 8 o'clock in Paris.

> leaving earth in uncharted territory "uncharted" is the keyword here, do you understand what it really means?

Do you know that Earth is more than Kyiv?

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#170

Post by goatlover »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #40
Aerroon wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But our oil consumption essentially is our way of life. Changing it will have enormous effects on modern life. A lot of people are going to see a significant drop in their quality of life as a result. This is why it's so hard to change things in the first place, it's not about the companies, but about average people.

That seems disingenuous when the climate catastrophe is going to have far greater effects on modern life. Too many people are clinging to the dream of continuing to dig out and burn as much oil as possible when it's clear that that behaviour is not sustainable. Although personal responsibility is never a bad thing, we need to focus on the big companies that have been deliberately hiding climate science for decades -…

80% of our current energy still comes from fossil fuels. The world runs on it. There isn't a simple solution that's economically and politically viable. It takes time to change that without drastically altering people's lifestyles. We saw how untenable that was in the longterm during Covid lockdowns.
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