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Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

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Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd gain nothing, they can already see it with their eyeballs, and they don't require anything else like faster response or a different viewpoint. You'd lose in terms of putting another hole in the aircraft and maintaining another system, and you'd still need the manual procedure in case the camera didn't work.

....how can they see the area where the front gear is from within the plane?

[deleted]

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#162

What's with them putting "a hold" on all of the passengers possessions? Like, that's leaving people without their wallets (aka id, money) and so on. Sounds like they may not get it back for an unknown period of time (weeks, months?) either.

Untold best practice: Keep your phone, passport, wallet etc on your body always while on a flight. Imagine being stuck in this situation in a foreign country where they'll keep you at the airport for days waiting to figure out how to get you back home without a passport. Your renters/homeowners insurance may cover anything left on the plane that is lost and not covered by the airline.

Eh, the chances of ever having this impact you are incredibly remote. And yes, the “cost” of following this guideline is low, until you consider that you could have similar rules for hundreds of other incredibly rare situations, none of which will ever happen to you. Seems exhausting for no benefit. I’ll just continue to keep my stuff in my backpack under the seat, and I can grab it if needed. Or not, and I’m sure that’ll be fine too.

Also, there’s no indication that anyone who left the plane without their ID or passport is just being left in the terminal for days, making this guideline even less valuable.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#163
post #11

This isn't common, but it's pretty routine. Pilots are trained for this, and the aircraft are designed to handle the stress.

https://www.youtube.com/@REALATCchannel/videos made me realize just how many incidents happen and are resolved without issue.

Aviation is not safe because of luck or because aerospace engineers build infallible machines. Aviation is safe because of a culture of safety that puts the right procedures in place to mitigate problems that will eventually happen.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#164
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an algorithm for everything in aviation. If you suspect your landing gear is not functional, you typically fly by a tower and have them make visual confirmation. Then you have another algorithm (they call them procedures) for how to land without gear. The airport likewise has a checklist of everything to do in this case. All of these procedures are hard won, the NTSB uses every hull failure and fatal acciden…

Not saying this should be an alternative , but having read a lot of transcripts and video of things like this, I wonder why there aren't outside cameras that would potentially give pilots a visual indication of plane conditions outside? Is it just the cost of supporting resilient cameras? A lot of incident reports have flight attendants or copilots leaving to try to make visual confirmation of things that it seems wo…

Newer aircraft have external cameras that can be pulled up on screens in the cockpit.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#165
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Delta owes these pilots an off-duty drink! Fun fact: Pilots can have a non-zero BAC (I think .04). So they could have it while on duty too if it’s not a double!

You are technically correct about the BAC, but they definitely cannot have one while "on duty", there's an 8 hour limit between your last drink and flying and some airlines have longer time windows by policy https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.17

8 hour limit + 0.04 = They can drink a lot the day before, but they have to aim pretty well…

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#166
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an algorithm for everything in aviation. If you suspect your landing gear is not functional, you typically fly by a tower and have them make visual confirmation. Then you have another algorithm (they call them procedures) for how to land without gear. The airport likewise has a checklist of everything to do in this case. All of these procedures are hard won, the NTSB uses every hull failure and fatal acciden…

And when there is not a tower nearby, you, uhh... find a way. My buddy was flying into one of the many uncontrolled airports in NorCal, and there was a guy in a single-engine retractable gear circling the airport. When Buddy made his downwind call, the Guy radioed "Hey I'm not getting any indication whether my gear is down or not, can you fly by me and tell me if it's down?" It was down, so Guy ended up attempting th…

I was on a commercial plane where the pilots could not tell if the gear was completely down and locked and got someone on the ground to look as we flew by slowly at low altitude. It appeared to be down, but they still landed very gingerly. Thankfully it was fine.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#167
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You guys have wallets? Seems like the only possession you’d really need to do anything useful is your phone. I wouldn't want to be stuck away from home on a flight without some physical ID. Also don't want to completely rely on Apple Pay to buy anything (not to mention that some stores still don't take Apple Pay).

First of all, contrary to popular belief you don’t need physical ID at airports, you can go through another process to have your identity verified, it takes longer but it’s trivial. Second, any place that doesnt take Apple Pay is not a place you should do business at. Even lowly kiosks and vending machines accept Apple Pay now. The places that are NOT accepting Apple Pay are a red flag, they are doing something nefar…

The world is a big place.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd gain nothing, they can already see it with their eyeballs, and they don't require anything else like faster response or a different viewpoint. You'd lose in terms of putting another hole in the aircraft and maintaining another system, and you'd still need the manual procedure in case the camera didn't work.

....how can they see the area where the front gear is from within the plane?

The people in the airplane ask the people on the ground to look at it for them. "They" refers collectively to pilots, flight attendants, and air traffic controllers.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#169
post #140

What's with them putting "a hold" on all of the passengers possessions? Like, that's leaving people without their wallets (aka id, money) and so on. Sounds like they may not get it back for an unknown period of time (weeks, months?) either.

You guys have wallets? Seems like the only possession you’d really need to do anything useful is your phone.

You don't? Where do you keep your driver's license, credit cards, etc? I don't have a full bifold/trifold, but do have a small card holder for IDs and CCs.

And then there's the passport and any other important documentation. That stuff is pretty much always in either my carry-on or a jacket pocket (which is usually also in the overhead).

Yeah, keeping my cell on my person probably avoids 80%-90% of the annoyance, but you aren't getting through customs or security without a physical ID in most places.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#170
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You guys have wallets? Seems like the only possession you’d really need to do anything useful is your phone. I wouldn't want to be stuck away from home on a flight without some physical ID. Also don't want to completely rely on Apple Pay to buy anything (not to mention that some stores still don't take Apple Pay).

First of all, contrary to popular belief you don’t need physical ID at airports, you can go through another process to have your identity verified, it takes longer but it’s trivial. Second, any place that doesnt take Apple Pay is not a place you should do business at. Even lowly kiosks and vending machines accept Apple Pay now. The places that are NOT accepting Apple Pay are a red flag, they are doing something nefar…

I don't need physical ID to get into the UK or EU? That's news to me.

And expecting ApplePay to be available everywhere? That's such a laughably US-centric (or maybe EU-centric) worldview.

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