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Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

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Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#161

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Good chance it was John Carmack, probably one the top 10 programmers of all time. He basically built the Quake engine himself. There is a pretty decent analysis of it here: * https://fabiensanglard.net/quakeSource/index.php I recommend checking it out. EDIT: i was thinking of the analysis done on Quake 2, which is more about the engine: * https://fabiensanglard.net/quake2/index.php while the one about is regarding th…

Ranking programmers is as dumb as ranking musicians. Carmack is great but you can't really say he's better than say some guy you've never heard of who wrote a bunch of absolutely brilliant algorithms inside a missile defense system and it's all super secret. Or someone who did amazing work on a compiler Carmack used or brilliant work in an OS kernel that you're never going to know about, or some AI code, or something…

Coincidentally (or not), Carmack started Armadillo Aerospace and was working rocket control and navigation systems. So…

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#162

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> By what metric? His record speaks for itself. I know it is tough to imagine what it was like programming 3D engines meant to run on graphics non-accelerated PCs running DOS, without the internet knowledge or collaboration available to us now, but the stuff he was doing was absolutely revolutionary. He basically created PC gaming as we know it today by creating a market for 3D accelerators and before that by doing i…

Hell no. As skilled as Carmack is as a coder, he falls well below the pioneers for early operating systems and programming language compilers and development in terms of industry and societal impact. Even Bricklin's VisiCalc and its descendants resulting in boring old modern spreadsheet software has a better claim to lasting societal impact than Carmack's 3D engines.

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Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#163

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Not saying I never conjure the spaghetti but whoever coded that really was deep into the tail end of a caffeine, coding and sleep deprivation binge ;)

>whoever coded that really was deep into the tail end of a caffeine, coding and sleep deprivation binge ;) That's most indie game devs of the period, but more so at id Software which splintered the team during Quake's development due to internal squabbles, causing John Romero and others to leave id. You can even tell that from the quality of Quake's levels which start with beautifully crafted and intricate levels, an…

I disagree that the later levels are filler. Episode 4 is my favorite, because it's the episode that best shows off Quake's excellent movement. It's less cramped than the others, and has better "flow", letting you bunny hop all over the maps with minimal waiting. I agree with the common consensus that it's the ugliest of the episodes, but I think this suits the weird otherworldly theme that Sandy Petersen was going for (influenced by the works of H. P. Lovecraft).

The only real complaint I have is the use of the Spawn enemy, which is generally considered the worst designed enemy in the game. But the enemy placement in episode 4 has the advantage that it makes relatively little use of the Ogre, which I consider the second worst enemy, because it has too much HP for something so common, and is too predictable on Nightmare difficulty (to the point that some people say Hard difficulty is actually more difficult than Nightmare).

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#165
post #136

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>whoever coded that really was deep into the tail end of a caffeine, coding and sleep deprivation binge ;) That's most indie game devs of the period, but more so at id Software which splintered the team during Quake's development due to internal squabbles, causing John Romero and others to leave id. You can even tell that from the quality of Quake's levels which start with beautifully crafted and intricate levels, an…

> causing John Romero and others to leave id afaik Romero was fired for not working. Cubicle walls came down because Romero was playing Doom on the clock instead of making the game(his form of protest for not making an RPG or something). If you look at Quake code most broken/lazy stuff was done by him. Example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEkjDkr0Qmc

AFAIK, Romero was a bit full of himself at that point in time seeing himself as a godly game designer. He then went on to start his own company and build the RPG he wanted, Daikatana, which was late, over budget, and flopped big time.

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ranking programmers is as dumb as ranking musicians. Carmack is great but you can't really say he's better than say some guy you've never heard of who wrote a bunch of absolutely brilliant algorithms inside a missile defense system and it's all super secret. Or someone who did amazing work on a compiler Carmack used or brilliant work in an OS kernel that you're never going to know about, or some AI code, or something…

> Ranking programmers is as dumb as ranking musicians. If a musician had a noticeable impact on culture and was prolific, I don't see why we can't put them in a bracket of [in top #]. The ranking is really just to illustrate my respect for his work, accomplishments, insightful communications, and continued relevance as well as impact on my life and those around me. You can call that 'dumb' if you like, but I am human…

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Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#168
post #119

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"You can even tell that from the quality of Quake's levels which start with beautifully crafted and intricate levels, and as you approach the end, progress into "whatever, let's just ship it, this is gonna sell" kind of levels that were mostly just boring repetitive filler to pad the play time." IIRC (this is well-documented if you want to double check), Tim Willits made most of the Episode 1 maps, John Romero made m…

FWIW while i also found Petersen's maps on the weird side geometrically, at the same time i think they were among the most interesting to play (both in Doom and Quake) as he often tried to come up with various gameplay tricks and traps to break the "mold". His Quake maps especially give me the impression that he was more into trying to come up with ideas on what is possible for the player to do in the freedom allowed…

I think there's a couple of orthogonal issues here.

One of them is the nature of interactivity in the levels themselves. There's a spectrum between having a game grammar made of distinct discrete interactive reusable objects and then building unique situations by assembling them in interesting ways, versus having (essentially) unique scripted traps or interactive things or set pieces that only show up in one place. Older action games that inspired Doom tend to draw from that former tradition; a lot of FPS games that came after Quake tended to go more down that second road. Quake's trigger system specifically opened up the door to a rudimentary kind of visual scripting that made the latter style of design more possible in a way that wasn't possible in Doom (although it was possible in Hexen via HexenC(?)). I think you could say that that style of design really came more into its own with Half-Life, which foregrounded unique interactivity grounded in very specific, themed levels much more clearly. Doom at its best seems like it's much more in the design space of, say, Robotron and old Mario games. Fewer unique set pieces, much more focus on discrete interactive toys to be recombined... and given id's background with Commander Keen and their earlier recreation of the first level of Mario 3, this design influence shouldn't be a surprise. Anyway, Quake feels like it is at the intersection of these two styles of design.

I think it is true that Peterson did try to go more down that second road of design in the episode 4 maps in a way that there was less of in other maps, and that it interesting.

But the other thing that sticks out to me more so, in terms of level design, is about the way the space is shaped. A lot of the very best Doom and Quake levels have a tendency of having different parts of levels intersect and interact in interesting, playful ways. The order that you see areas is different from the order that you hear areas is different from the order that you can attack into or interact with areas is different from the order you can move through areas is different from the order that different kinds of enemies can move through areas or attack areas. And that changes as you progress through a level, get keys, and activate switches. There's a tendency for levels to start somewhat linear and movement constrained but give information about later areas in a somewhat more non-linear, tantalizing way, and then as a player progresses, for the player's movement in a level to become more like a multiply connected graph as switches, keys, and activated lifts make a lot of one-way paths become two-way. And that style of design plays to the strengths of Doom and Quake using BSPs for levels as their fundamental data structure - BSPs specifically make these kinds of weird and surprising visual and physical intersections between areas manageable in terms of computational performance on 90's era hardware.

Whether or not someone considers the design approaches I just outlined appealing is fundamentally an aesthetic issue, obviously - there's no one right way to enjoy a game. But my general sense is that the Sandy Peterson maps in Doom and Quake tend to explore these approaches to play much less than the maps made by other designers.

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#170
post #139
post #74

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The closest guy to Carmack today seems to be Brian Caris, who developed virtualized geometry[1], a rasterization based rendering technique where the geometric detail of static objects is adjusted to the screen resolution in real time. There is another talk (can't find it right now) where he mentions Carmack as an inspiration. I wonder what Carmack would be working on today if he was still in the game engine business.…

Who made DLSS? Using ML to denoise ray tracing is massive.

I think DLSS doesn't do denoising. DLSS uses an ML algorithm to upscale frames using additional information like z buffer and motion vectors. Denoising is used to drastically reduce the number of required rays for ray tracing. I would guess denoising is done first, using a non-ML algorithm, and DLSS is done afterwards.
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