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Visual Studio '11' Announced

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Re: Visual Studio '11' Announced

#161

Post by jerhewet »

MartinCron wrote: post #91
oleganza wrote: post #20

Interesting thing about VS and Xcode is that they do not really try to compete with somebody or fight for attention. Both Windows and Mac/iOS developers would use less useful tools if they still let them make products for the popular platforms. JetBrains, Borland and others are fighting for attention and developers' love. They must try really-really hard to make people choose an alternative to the official tools. So…

I personally think that Microsoft should stick with things that only Microsoft can do , and leave the more cutting-edge innovations to others. Example: the test automation tools into Visual Studio were terrible. Maybe they still are, I don't know, I've stopped using them. nUnit is just better. Their automated refactoring stuff may be OK, but the stuff from JetBrains is much, much better. Don't get me started on Team…

> the test automation tools into Visual Studio were terrible

It went from "just plain bad" in VS2008 to "horribly awful" in VS2010. So awful that someone at MS named the process that manages the unit testing "QTAgent", so that when your machine slowed to a crawl and you opened the Task Manager to see what was wrong you'd see "QT" and conclude it was a background update issue with Apple QuickTime.

Re: Visual Studio '11' Announced

#162

Post by forgotAgain »

jodrellblank wrote: post #133
marshray wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OMG that's insane. Well, our Windows builds may just have to move from 2005 to 2010 and plan to be stuck there for the forseeable future. I was hoping I could use a C++11 compiler for Windows development someday. But it's probably more likely that I'll stop developing for Windows before my company's customers stop running XP.

It is not "insane", XP is three years past the end of official support and only two years until the end of extended support. It's two generations old and possibly three by the time this is released. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/products/lifecycl... XP doesn't run IE9 either, and it came out ages ago. XP is old now.

I'll go out on a limb here and predict that XP extended support will itself be extended. There are simply too many desktops out there using it to be ignored.

Re: Visual Studio '11' Announced

#164

Post by forgotAgain »

blackhole wrote: post #18

I'm sorry, but I use color to locate things. This, to me, is a disaster. If this isn't a problem for other people, fine, but it's a problem to me. A better solution would have been to use less color and desaturated tones rather than simply going to full on black and white, which serves only to rob the IDE of potential visual cues. This is like using a cannon to kill a bird. Just because they overcolorized VS2010 for…

I wonder if Microsoft isn't doing this as a subtle way to get developers mindset away from "old style" window's applications and into a Metro mindset.

Re: Visual Studio '11' Announced

#165

Post by jerhewet »

coffeeaddicted wrote: post #55
bwarp wrote: post #12

Sure it looks all pretty, but have they made it faster and more reliable? VS2010 is just damn slow and falls over on me at least 2-3 times a day which is not acceptable. When you pay for 25 VS2010 premium licenses with MSDN on top of your gold partner allowance, you expect it to work.

Speed is fine here and I generally enjoy working with VS 10 when I'm on Windows (showing errors while typing is a fantastic feature which I haven's seen for c++ before VS10). But my annoying VS 10 bug is that approximately once per week it simply refuses rebuilding a changed c++ file until I clean and rebuild the whole project. It just continues using the old object file despite having c++ files with a newer date - a…

Try adding a semicolon in your source files immediately after your includes:

#include "stdio.h" #include "system.h"

;

int StartOfYourCPPCode() {

There's a long-standing bug with pre-compiled headers and code regeneration that (apparently) Microsoft has never fixed. There were (still are?) so many obscure issues with PCH that I just disabled it altogether.

Re: Visual Studio '11' Announced

#168

Post by acqq »

AshleysBrain wrote: post #59

Developers beware: Visual C++ 11 cannot compile executables that work on Windows XP at all: https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/... C++ devs may want to skip this release and just go for Visual C++ 12 when it's out, since by then hopefully XP will be ignorable.

As "Mike" commented there:

"One big thing that works against us having any sort of nice workaround for this, is the fact that as of Visual C++ 2010, the CRT and MFC rebuild makefiles are no longer included with the source code. In 2008 and earlier, it was so easy to rebuild CRT and MFC DLLs because there was a clear set of makefiles included. Now all there is, is a silly "these are the compiler and linker switches we use, go find your own solution to rebuild these" web page."

It's also not something that would take them work to do, as the older library versions already implemented the code paths needed for Windows 2000 and XP.

I suspect MS wants the support for older OS-es banned to make new apps unrunable on Wine too.

Re: Visual Studio '11' Announced

#169

Post by AshleysBrain »

16s wrote: post #154
marshray wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OMG that's insane. Well, our Windows builds may just have to move from 2005 to 2010 and plan to be stuck there for the forseeable future. I was hoping I could use a C++11 compiler for Windows development someday. But it's probably more likely that I'll stop developing for Windows before my company's customers stop running XP.

2010 builds them OK. You can also look at mingw with g++ if you want to try some of the C++11 features on Windows XP. I was surprised to hear that MS did this. XP is still widely used in industry and is a good baseline platform to target.

2010-built executables only work on XP SP2+ btw, so they've been creeping it forwards every release for a while.

Re: Visual Studio '11' Announced

#170

Post by achanlon »

nathanscott wrote: post #149

This is how I know this isn't genuinely a developer tool http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3628696

I would point out that line numbers are an option in VS. Secondly, I believe we are getting to a point where giant monolithic files should be the exception rather than the rule. Lastly, the ability to right click on a symbol and go directly to it's definition, see a clickable list of all its uses, and the fact that all warnings/errors are clickable means that the line numbers are less-important frankly. I still have mine on always but I rarely use them.
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