Apple Vision • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Vision

#161

Post by seydor » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 2:06 PM UTC

vlovich123 wrote: post #144

seydor wrote: post #130

My bet would be completely the opposite. No matter how good these devices get they lack in input bandwidth. My keyboard beats all VR , and it seems to easily beat apple's VR too. The headset is clearly targeted to static environments, entertainment. The apps are like ipad apps, looking cute but when people want to do serious work fast, they use a laptop because it has a keyboard. It is overengineered. There are a lot…

Your keyboard works just fine in VR. What’s the problem? I think a real display replacement (in terms of shrinking down your monitor/TV to something you can trivially carry around with you) seems like a real use case.

it doesnt exactly work as a screen replacement because it is stricly personal. Good for using in airplanes and maybe when alone but like other VR glasses, it doesnt fit well in other circumstances

Re: Apple Vision

#162

Post by brookst » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 2:07 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #95

brookst wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaving personal desires out of it, the relationship of porn and tech goes back at least to VHS vs Betamax, probably further. It’s not unreasonable to believe that does not stop with XR headsets.

Sure, but what's the relationship post Blu-Ray? Serving video in general has been important, but not pornography in particular. Ridiculous to say porn is the real usecase. If you have some articles about how porn in particular has driven cutting edge tech please do share. My understanding is that it's been more military, video games and space that have driven cutting edge tech (along with serving ads, of course).

Anecdotally, everyone I know with a VR headset (all of about 5 people) is quite open that porn was one reason for the purchase.

The claim isn’t that porn drives technical advances the way space does, but that porn drives consumer adoption of new tech. If a new product category does X, Y, and Z, some percentage of people will buy it. If it does X, Y, Z, and porn, it’s going to sell to a bigger audience and probably make people more forgiving of shortcomings (ha) doing X, Y, and/or Z.

Re: Apple Vision

#163

Post by pavlov » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 2:07 PM UTC

mcphage wrote: post #131

pavlov wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newton, Power Mac Cube, iMac G4 "Sunflower", and solid gold first-gen Apple Watch come to mind as Apple hardware products that failed to live up to the hype. On the software side there are more misses, but also the stakes are lower. It's a great track record for thirty years, of course. All the other big tech companies have graveyards full of half-assed product launches.

> iMac G4 "Sunflower" What was a failure about that? It looked good and worked well. > solid gold first-gen Apple Watch In what way did the gold watch fail? It was the first gen watch, the same hardware as the rest, just made of gold for rich people. It didn’t fail any more than any other color did.

Both failed badly to live up to Apple's sales expectations.

The Sunflower iMac was discontinued even before its successor shipped.

The Apple Watch Edition was supposed to grow Apple into a luxury brand and expand its margins massively (you can find many interviews with Jony Ive from 2015 where he explains this thinking). This strategy was a dud.

Re: Apple Vision

#164

Post by cpuguy83 » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 2:08 PM UTC

AnonC wrote: post #157

tashoecraft wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, here's a wild thought, the whole device will get smaller....And standalone cameras will exist. So it wont be awkward, as it will just appear to be glasses on your head that we've not found awkward in the last several hundred years.

> So it wont be awkward, as it will just appear to be glasses on your head that we've not found awkward in the last several hundred years. That’s what Google Glass tried and it flopped anyway. People also found a camera on glasses (like the Google Glass version) to be highly creepy. Apple emphasized that the front of these glasses will clearly indicate when someone’s taking a photo or video (to the subjects who’re se…

Google Glass wasn't given a chance. They axed it as soon as people started complaining about being nervous around ppl with it on rather than change anything.

Re: Apple Vision

#165

Post by robg » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 2:09 PM UTC

aqme28 wrote: post #155

coldpie wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, if this thing catches on, I think this will be my "old man gets left behind by technology" moment. Everything I see from the marketing of this just looks like a soulless dystopia. I hate it. If the future is strapping a phone to your face and never leaving the house, I'm ready to be left in the past.

You're going to lose days at a time in the retirement home to VR tiktok and VR candy crush.

Jokes aside, assisted living homes are exactly the place where XR is finding adoption - entertainment and healthcare for people who can’t readily leave.

Re: Apple Vision

#166

Post by 5350-uiop-1130 » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 2:09 PM UTC

whynaut wrote: post #87

sidibe wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you just look at the key you want on the on-screen keyboard and then click it by touching your thumb and index finger. This has been used on many other devices and is miserable, it's like using the joystick to type on a game console

Watch Marques Brownlee's video on it. It's vastly better than anything before it in both hand- and eye-tracking.

i feel like brownlee is an apple "shill" or at least he knows not to say anything critical - it's business.

Re: Apple Vision

#167

Post by xrisk » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 2:10 PM UTC

_gabe_ wrote: post #138

pavlov wrote: post #35

"The company was fairly mum about how it planned to make those cameras and its format more widely available, but I am completely serious when I say that I would pay the NBA thousands of dollars to get a season pass to watch games captured in this way. Yes, that’s a crazy statement to make, but courtside seats cost that much or more, and that 10-second clip was shockingly close to the real thing." The author was shown…

Thank you, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills or something. I have no idea how much of the footage in the long advertisements are actual in-headset recording vs highly editorialized made up aspirational CG. Additionally, I really don't think all the people here singing the praises of Apple's currently nonexistent headset (for actual customer use at least until 2024 or something) have ever used a headset. Headsets giv…

This TechCrunch review where the reviewer had access to them says that the issues with headaches/nausea don’t happen: https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/05/first-impressions-yes-appl...

Re: Apple Vision

#168

Post by apinstein » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 2:10 PM UTC

aqme28 wrote: post #34

All these "relive your memory" videos are incredibly awkward, because of how downright sad it is to strap this on your head during your kid's birthday just to relive it on repeat like Tom Cruise in Minority Report. The real usecase is porn, but they're too tactful to say it.

I played around a lot with VR180 when it came out. The experience is incredibly, almost uncomfortably intimate for personal videos. I felt so awkward watching demos of other peoples “blow out the birthday candles” moments. However, the fact that it was uncomfortable means that the technology itself is very good, otherwise it couldn’t produce such and emotional experience.

On the tech side, I’m just guessing, but it looks like Apple has an even better version of VR189. A 6dof version of VR180 seems entirely plausible for Apple to pull off with NeRFs and would be even more incredible.

Again, I agree that it’s a bit weird for personal memories, both on the recording side (possibly awkward to wear goggles in those situations) and even watching personal memories.

However, I’d expect Apple to make recording spatial videos possible w iPhone/iPad, which at least fixes the awkward recording issue.

Even with that possibility, I think Apple hurt themselves using this “personal memory spatial video” example.

For me, the far better use cases are for entertainment. Professional, live (and recorded) spatial video will be huge. Everyone can have front row, court side, or even birds-eye views of all forms of in-person entertainment. Sports, plays, comedy, concerts, orchestras. The experience of watching it is so intimate experientially I think it will be amazing. Looks like the tech to make it happen is finally here. Imagine them owning “the App Store” for spatial video pay-per-view…

Excited to see where this goes!

Re: Apple Vision

#169

Post by fortyseven » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 2:11 PM UTC

flappyeagle wrote: post #59

pavlov wrote: post #35

"The company was fairly mum about how it planned to make those cameras and its format more widely available, but I am completely serious when I say that I would pay the NBA thousands of dollars to get a season pass to watch games captured in this way. Yes, that’s a crazy statement to make, but courtside seats cost that much or more, and that 10-second clip was shockingly close to the real thing." The author was shown…

It’s obvious how a 10 second clip scales to 10 minutes or 10 hours or 10 days. You don’t need that much imagination or even a leap of faith. A court side seat to an NBA game is north of $1000. If this creates 20% of the experience it will easily pay for itself in 1 season.

[flagged]

Re: Apple Vision

#170

Post by endisneigh » Tue, Jun 06, 2023, 2:11 PM UTC

brookst wrote: post #162

endisneigh wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but what's the relationship post Blu-Ray? Serving video in general has been important, but not pornography in particular. Ridiculous to say porn is the real usecase. If you have some articles about how porn in particular has driven cutting edge tech please do share. My understanding is that it's been more military, video games and space that have driven cutting edge tech (along with serving ads, of course).

Anecdotally, everyone I know with a VR headset (all of about 5 people) is quite open that porn was one reason for the purchase. The claim isn’t that porn drives technical advances the way space does, but that porn drives consumer adoption of new tech. If a new product category does X, Y, and Z, some percentage of people will buy it. If it does X, Y, Z, and porn, it’s going to sell to a bigger audience and probably ma…

> but that porn drives consumer adoption of new tech

sure. where's the evidence? anything that can serve video can serve porn. where's evidence that porn in particular is somehow unique? YouTube for example as more active users than all porn sites combined, yet porn is not even available on YouTube.

being able to play videos in XR I think will be a real use-case, but this idea that porn in particular is the real usecase is probably wrong, imho. this is not to say that people won't use it for that.