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CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

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Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#161

Post by csense »

retrac wrote: post #46
the-dude wrote: post #12

This reminds me of a video I stumbled across on YT : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMq-fApmzts This guy alleges that the US were 'kind' on Japan (only light tribunal?) after the war because they wanted to acquire the bio-warfare knowledge of the Japanese. And the Japanese tested bio-bombs.

This is a constantly changing area of history, so we're on shaky ground. The diaries of the chamberlain to Hirohito were only published a couple years ago, for example. They implicate the emperor deeply in war-time decisions in a way that contradicts the post-war narrative of a hapless well-meaning buffoon misled by his underlings. I suspect the real reason is close to the usually accepted story, though. Millions of…

I wonder why we didn't try the same thing in the War on Terror?

Capture high-ranking Islamic clerics, give them a choice: "Go on TV and explain to everyone that Allah's will is for all good Muslims to throw down their weapons and surrender to the Americans. If you refuse, we'll put you on trial for war crimes."

[1] In this post I'm not taking a position on the morality or legality of the US taking such an action, either in WW2 or the War on Terror. I'm merely noting that:

- The US did this sort of thing with the Emporer in WW2, and it seemed to work.

- The US didn't do this sort of thing in Afghanistan / Iraq, and those wars were definitely same kind of overwhelming success story that WW2 was. (I don't dispute some key objectives were obtained: Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden were eventually killed; and there has no been 9/11 level terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11 itself.)

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#162

Post by oneshtein »

VagueMag wrote: post #151
oneshtein wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

11 millions were killed, and 25 millions were starved to death by Soviets prior to the war. ("Svoboda" (Liberty, Ukrainian outlet in the USA) Oct 04 1941 [0]). Numbers are matching the (hidden and then destroyed) 1926 census, where Ukrainians were listed at 81 million and Russians at 77 million. Russians increased losses in WWWII from 12 to 42 millions to hide about 30 million of kills by Soviets. 0: http://web.archi…

Ukrainian outlet in the USA in 1941, hmmmmm....

Too late to edit

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#163

Post by orangepurple »

oneshtein wrote: post #127
kornhole wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one may have been a leak of unfinished product rather than a release. The vaccine was already in development at that time. A lot of people made a ton of money.

Most likely, the SARS-CoV-2 virus spread from the "Vector" laboratory in Novosibirsk, where research was being conducted on the "Sputnik V" vaccine. Evidence: * The name "Sputnik V" (Fifth Follower) suggests that the vaccine was developed following something, IMHO it was a biological weapon, and that it was the fifth attempt to create a vaccine. It is highly unlikely that Russia could have created and tested five vac…

That's interesting but can you link the Russian soldiers to the bioweapons research lab in Wuhan where the first known spread there occurred? (The so called wet market red herring)

It seems highly implausible that Russian solders landed infected in Wuhan without spreading it everywhere around the airport and personnel. We were told the first known spread occurred near the wet market where the bioresearch lab is located.

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#164

Post by orangepurple »

oneshtein wrote: post #127
kornhole wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one may have been a leak of unfinished product rather than a release. The vaccine was already in development at that time. A lot of people made a ton of money.

Most likely, the SARS-CoV-2 virus spread from the "Vector" laboratory in Novosibirsk, where research was being conducted on the "Sputnik V" vaccine. Evidence: * The name "Sputnik V" (Fifth Follower) suggests that the vaccine was developed following something, IMHO it was a biological weapon, and that it was the fifth attempt to create a vaccine. It is highly unlikely that Russia could have created and tested five vac…

Citation 0 is banned in the US, lol

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#165

Post by fuzzfactor »

HWR_14 wrote: post #119
the_optimist wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which crimes are you referring to? Which war are you referring to?

He's referring to the US government rounding up US citizens of Japanese descent and moving them to camps during WWII. It was a horrific thing the US government did. Unfortunately, because humans can be horrible, I would disagree it was one of the greatest crimes against humanity in history.

Good observation.

1945 was about halfway between now and when slavery was still widely accepted as the norm since time immemorial.

Statistically you would have to expect attitudes of what amounts to "humanity" to have only been about halfway from slavery to what there is now. Anything considered more modern would only have begun to exist to a much smaller extent at the time.

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#166

Post by Larrikin »

fuzzfactor wrote: post #165
HWR_14 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's referring to the US government rounding up US citizens of Japanese descent and moving them to camps during WWII. It was a horrific thing the US government did. Unfortunately, because humans can be horrible, I would disagree it was one of the greatest crimes against humanity in history.

Good observation. 1945 was about halfway between now and when slavery was still widely accepted as the norm since time immemorial. Statistically you would have to expect attitudes of what amounts to "humanity" to have only been about halfway from slavery to what there is now. Anything considered more modern would only have begun to exist to a much smaller extent at the time.

I think slavery was a bigger crime against humanity than the internment of Japanese, but regard them as both as among the most awful crimes the US has committed to humanity as a whole.

It wasn't meant to rank the worst things humans have ever done (outside of slavery no matter the country, that is almost always a distraction to justify awful things other's have done), but they are both among the most awful things the US has specifically done to the world.

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#167

Post by refurb »

hutzlibu wrote: post #135
refurb wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One piece that is always missing in these arguments is - what was the alternative? Blockade Japan into submission? Is hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians dying of hunger better than being killed by an atomic weapon?

How about exploding the bomb in the sky, visible from the emperors palace and the whole city? Or using it against an actual military target. The message would have been clear, we can annihilate you if we want and you don't surrender. But they choose to go against the civilian population simply, because they wanted the data, of what a bomb does to a city. And that by that time bombing civilians was already pretty norm…

I mean, the Allies literally bombed a major city with the first atomic weapon and Japan was like "yeah, not going to surrender". Then after the 2nd bomb, it still took days and a Soviet invasion to get them to surrender.

I'm not sure a demonstration would mean much if destroying a entire city didn't convince them.

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#168

Post by dang »

VagueMag wrote: post #152
nancyhn wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be too obvious, don't you think?

[flagged]

We've banned this account for using HN primarily for ideological battle. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#169

Post by throwaway6734 »

VagueMag wrote: post #150
throwaway6734 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Hearst newspaper hyperventilations about the famines aside, there was no Soviet attempt to "genocide Eastern Europe."

The Holodomor?

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#170

Post by RajT88 »

photochemsyn wrote: post #90
RajT88 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big claim at the end there. The FBI agents assigned to that investigation themselves admit they are not sure Bruce Ivins was their man. Nor if he was, that he acted alone. Even if it was just him, no evidence of motivation was ever found. Truly one of our nation's great unsolved mysteries.

No it wasn't Bruce Ivins, the anthrax powder in the envelopes was a highly sophisticated preparation and Ivins didn't have access to the necessary technology (electrospray aerosolization of pure spores in a specific solution designed to make them maximally aerosolizable when dry). If you look up 'electrospray technology for vaccine production' c. 1999 you'll find the culprits. In West Jefferson, Ohio, acting under CI…

I cannot seem to locate the first paper you mentioned. Only seem to come up with stuff published in the last 5 years.

I am interested in trying to follow along though.

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