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Why I Left Rust

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Re: Why I Left Rust

#161

Post by foldr »

lionkor wrote: post #36
bitwize wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, open source is just like this now. I think it's a confluence of factors: 1) Open source is more about interpersonal collaboration than it ever has been. The lone hacker throwing tarballs -- or patches -- over the fence is dead. Open source projects now more closely resemble "real world" software projects: a team of engineers using collaborative tools, working toward a defined shared vision with management and ove…

There is and always has been a problem parallel to this: People who are part of a group they believe to be fundamentally segregated and discriminated against are much more likely to let this influence their judgement. A promotion of someone else quickly becomes favoritism, and a demotion or reassignment (or rescheduling) quickly becomes discrimination, even if those decisions were made on a different basis. A lot of…

>A lot of these kinds of public outcries are people of a minority group misunderstanding why some decision was made. Of course there is discrimination, but not as much as some people believe.

It's easy to miss the discrimination when you're not a member of the affected group.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#163

Post by ojosilva »

BDFL or atomic leadership-led groups are more streamlined and decisions tend to be less questioned, dissidents are erased out and egos crushed. It's easier because all the gravitas, and all the blame, is pinned to a monolith. "When he/she/it woke, the dinosaur was still there" would say Guatemalan writer Monterroso.

Participative leadership, otoh, is a pain. Every topic is a tug-of-war. Every decision has a significant party that disagrees and is unhappy with the outcome. Every ego flourishes. Even the serene will feel poised and entitled to raise endless issues. There's a general lack of perspective and very few people celebrating what has been accomplished. All milestones are muddied by buts and ifs and people feel like shit.

Yet in every disagreement lies opportunity. Multiplying successes is the heart and soul of teamwork. That's why participative groups are better because worse is better. I hope the Rust team doesn't lose perspective and keep, as before, working hard to drive such a great language, toolchain and open community forward.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#165

Post by serial_dev »

capableweb wrote: post #116
aww_dang wrote: post #86

How does this kind of organizational drama affect me as an end user of the Rust programming language?

The conference used to offer different viewpoints, even if those viewpoints weren't the "official" ones by the Rust organization. It seems like they're changing this so only endorsed viewpoints will be represented in the conference, possibly leading to a stagnation of innovative ideas. Time will tell what will happen, but when opposing viewpoints starts being hidden away, things tend to get relatively boring quickly.

On the other hand, as a conference attendee, I expect that the keynote talks reflect which direction Rust is going.

If they know that the person's point of view is totally different than the most likely outcome, having this speaker as keynote speaker is not a good choice.

(With all that aside, they should have thought about it before inviting this person, and not after)

Re: Why I Left Rust

#166

Post by lakomen »

wokwokwok wrote: post #111
indy wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much less weight should be given to someone "feeling uncomfortable" Rust the language is pretty good but the community around it has become really off-putting. The thick veneer of empathy and compassion quickly devolves into "idiot compassion" and emotional blackmail. Even the linked post contains the following: "I left because when I felt JeanHeyd's pain and disappointment at being mistreated and betrayed, my heart…

Is it bad of me to say I really just don’t care? If he did the talk. If he did it as a keynote. If someone else is “leaving rust” because of it? It all seems so fabulously irrelevant, I really struggle to understand why: 1) I should care (I don’t, currently) 2) People are coming out of the woodwork to criticise the rust team / foundation whatever when they’re not involved. 3) Why people having emotions (eg. The perso…

It's called being an empathic human being

Re: Why I Left Rust

#168

Post by revskill »

Emotional is cheap. Show me the algorithm (to resolve the whole process).

More empathy is welcome (from the keynote person, too). Instead of giving up, let's try to improve things and avoid blaming instead. Blaming is not the best way to improve things, even if it hurt you.

Input: Presentations on some topics from some people.

Output: Fuzzy logic here right ?

Re: Why I Left Rust

#170

Post by agumonkey »

orangetuba wrote: post #119

I've attended a few Rust conferences and events, and they have all been unusually politicized. There has been a very strong emphasis on how inclusive the community is, which raises some red flags. It is akin to someone repeatedly expressing how smart or funny they are... it makes you wonder why. I was waiting for something like this to happen.

Is it a case of people repeatedly talking about grand principles that you never felt were actually naturally followed ?
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