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Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

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Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#161

Post by lostlogin »

janosdebugs wrote: post #153
lostlogin wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are people so hung up on the licence agreement? VMs run fine all on all sorts of hardware, Mac’s, Nucs, NASs, actual servers etc. I often see posted that using VMs violates the agreement, has someone been sued or something?

The post is literally about someone getting sued for providing this very service. Are you missing a /s?

A poorly written comment by me, as I was thinking of macOS and trying to ask:

“Has an individual running a few VMs ever lost a lawsuit?”

Obviously fighting Apple would be terrible, but has an individual (as opposed to a company) ever run into trouble?

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#162

Post by lostlogin »

scrollaway wrote: post #155
lostlogin wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a solution, or an additional poison?

Why would it be an additional poison? It's solving problems in my life. I have a calendar, it's synced across all my devices, I have no fear of lock-in, and I have full control over my data without fearing about my account getting locked (as I pay for Workspace). Same for email, same for contacts. What's the poison there?

You don’t have full control of your data. Google isn’t some Mecca of freedom, it’s an advertising company.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#163

Post by freetanga »

dragonwriter wrote: post #43
qmarchi wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not illegal, but a breach of contract.

Breach of contract is illegal, even though its not (in and of itself) criminal.

I think it’s not always the case, if the contract is abusive or illegal.

We had a situation where we chose to breach since IBM contract was abusive and not really enforceable. They never complained, despite threats.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#164

Post by amelius »

ftyhbhyjnjk wrote: post #144

Good good. Apple has been abusing their dominant position for far too long. If it's my hardware, I'll do whatever tf I want. Apple can't do shit.

They can still use dark patterns to make people avoid the VMs. E.g., show unnecessary security warnings.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#167

Post by qwerty456127 »

musicale wrote: post #52
crazygringo wrote: post #51

Can someone remind me why Apple is so anti-VM in seemingly every instance? It just seems so arbitrary and unhelpful, and I have a hard time imagining that the amount of hardware purchased it forces outweigh the benefits from making macOS/iOS better platforms for development and computation. It just seems like such an odd stance to take.

Apple is not anti-VM. It is anti VM-on-non-Apple-hardware. ;-) Presumably they have determined that lost hardware sales would offset any increased app or service sales from allowing VMs on non-Apple hardware. Though I don't actually know what platform macOS and iOS VMs run on in GitHub Actions and Azure pipelines. Edit: apparently Azure pipelines uses Mac pros. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/devops/pipelines…

> Apple is not anti-VM. It is anti VM-on-non-Apple-hardware. ;-)

Do you mean they allow VMs on iPads already?

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#168

Post by thaumasiotes »

usernew wrote: post #156
hgsgm wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Criminal law isn't the only law, so not the only source of illegality.

I am sorry to have to say this, as it detracts from discussion. you really need to read the full text of things to which you are replying, before replying. you are wrong, and your exact point was already explained. yes - criminal law is the only source of illegality. that is literally the definition of the word.

> criminal law is the only source of illegality. that is literally the definition of the word.

Your definition is not compatible with any common understanding of the word, or with any major dictionary.

Maybe you should check the definition of the word before taking a position on what it is, next time.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#169

Post by my123 »

buzer wrote: post #150
mulmen wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s more to a mac than the sticker. It’s specific hardware that is tested and supported by the software. That’s worth a premium. Verifying your rack is a cost Apple doesn’t want to take on. iCloud doesn’t run on MacOS. It runs on Linux. Just buy the right hardware for the job.

Does Apple dogfood their OS X/iOS CI pipelines, i.e. are they running them on some off-the-shelf Macs like they expect everyone else to do? I remember reading that at least in the past they were running virtualized OS X on regular servers for those (actually found following: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18117885 ). And it's not like Apple would need to verify anything. They can grant the license, but say that…

> are they running them on some off-the-shelf Macs like they expect everyone else to do?

No. Last time I poked into Xcode Cloud, it was running on Ice Lake server Xeons, which didn't ship on any Mac.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#170

Post by dzikimarian »

csharpminor wrote: post #107
chrisshroba wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One guess: if macOS could be virtualized, it would be even easier to run things like Messages, FaceTime, and Photos on non-Apple hardware, which reduces some of the lock-in effect that keeps people from leaving the ecosystem (i.e. Green Bubble Effect)

Yes, and would lead to iMessage spam and FaceTime robocalls.

There's ton of other instant messaging apps that can run on anything or even have an API. I use some of them and weirdly spam is not a problem at all.

Also you can run iMessage without mac if you really want to.

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