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The Windows 11 Trash Party

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Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#161

Post by frozenport »

nstart wrote: post #31

Windows is my daily driver. I actually like the OS but Microsoft would do well to listen to these concerns being raised consistently. They need to ask some deep questions of themselves of what they want Windows to be. This reminds me of the days where Ballmers goal seemed to be to lock everyone into Windows and MS products when the real upside turned out to be “make MS products fully available where people already ar…

You think they can control it?

Lack of design in Windows is a direct consequence of MS's inability to steer its process and product strategies.

Multiple competing GUI teams, user experience, core devs unable to roll out features because of the number of stake holders, etc.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#163

Post by makeitdouble »

smusamashah wrote: post #151

I have a theory. People who actually like Windows 11 are mostly new windows users. New as in they haven't used Windows 98 or it's likes, also they were never have been the power users of Windows from that time. Yead old windows had so many problems, mostly around finding where particular settings are, but otherwise it was fast and usable and was definitely not a Mac. There is a saying in my language which translates…

Chiming in as a new user who jumped from XP to 11 (also tried rolling it back to 10 just to see, and reverted it to 11)

Windows has always been to me a "make it work" experience, from 95 to XP at least. Critical aspects have always been broken, a fresh install always started from wiping everything clean, removing junk, going into the registry and adding third party tools to make it viable. And then backing it up, because as some point it will need to be wiped again.

In that respect, Win 11 doesn't feel that different to me. I also was frustrated by the side dashboard, and there's tool suites to remove it quickly. Most of the eggregious stuff can be worked around, getting rid of Edge is the only tough part.

Now, Windows 11 comes with a linux subsytem, Amazon's android subsystem is also promising, touch support is actually workable, hdpi support is good, and using windows on a tablet is actually doable. That's a very long way from the win 2000 area where multi-language support was seen as a cutting edge feature.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#164

Post by selfhoster11 »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #105
denkmoon wrote: post #96

It makes me so angry that companies like Microsoft are so dead set on shoving the culture down my throat by all means possible for a few cents of ad revenue while I do my best to avoid the culture as much as possible. I will pay. I will pay lots. Just fuck off with the shootings and the child abuses and the red vs blue and the things that are ruining our brains.

[flagged]

People used to decide that they want to find out about this stuff by themselves. So no, I personally have no desire to find out what the news du jour consists of in whichever country I live, if my OS is force-feeding me this.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#165

Post by waboremo »

tcmart14 wrote: post #85
sho_hn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Windows is definitely adware now. It's sad, isn't it? In many a Hacker News thread about the Year of the Linux Desktop, someone will inevitably deadpan how there's just no money to be made; there's no business model. It seems to me that the same is true for Apple and Microsoft. There's "no" money in the desktop itself, only as a value-add, via platform effects or via dark pattern monetization like this.

To be honest, Windows really should just rebase on to Linux. They can make their programs work on linux. But the OS isn't the future for Microsoft when it comes to profits. Their future is software and tooling. I don't follow MS's financials, but I bet their growth with Azure and Linux is far outpacing Windows license keys. I believe they have already indicated that Ubuntu is far more popular than their own server OS…

I don't think rebasing on to Linux offers them much. The current interoperability is "good enough", and the rest is UX - something Microsoft struggles with across the board. It's not for a lack of trying either, they've spent years now working on Fluent and it's still mediocre. Every time you think they make a fantastic decision, they turn around and add 10 more horrible UX choices (see Edge). It's so apparent it feels like as soon as the core design and dev team finalizes something, it gets sent to a penny pinching team who requires it have a bunch of unnecessary cheap bloat.

This is something that won't change on the shift to Linux. It has to be a deep cultural shift, until then the company is never going to prioritize experience.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#166

Post by mastercheif »

quyleanh wrote: post #91
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #47

There are two Microsofts, as I see it. The one with DevDiv and stuff, which has amazing and mostly free development tools like VS Code, VS 2022, Windows Terminal, WSL, Azure, the .NET ecosystem, the MSVC C++ STL, PowerShell, TypeScript, and so on. And then there's the bean-counting, irritating part of Microsoft that has stuck around since the 90s and doesn't seem to go away. This part justifies adding advertisements…

Agree with you except the prefer reason. I like to using Window because of its advantages about UX, which I cannot find in Linux or macOS. For example: the consistent keyboard shortcuts, the explorer's UX and UI when accessing by mouse and keyboard, the window management including tiling flow, the muti-monitor management... I feel that there is power at Microsoft forcing Windows including terrible adware as now, just…

How are Windows keyboard shortcuts more consistent than macOS? My experience is that the opposite is true.

What’s the standard Windows shortcut for opening an applications preferences (cmd + ,”? What about switching tabs (cmd + shift + [ or ]).

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#167

Post by smaudet »

StillBored wrote: post #54
WWLink wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like what does it want to be? Is it an OS or an advertisement platform. It's an OS created for enterprise corporations to support and manage the actions of their employees in a digital world. First and foremost. Most MS products are. The ad platform is MS trying to find ways to continue growing profits. :D

Nah, few enterprises have asked for any of this trash either. I'm pretty sure that most of them would be perfectly happy with a windows 98 style GUI, that supported modern hardware. They don't want all this churn either, they want something that is stable, doesn't change very fast and doesn't require them to constantly retrain their staff or waste their IT admins time fighting with whatever new options require a new…

It is somewhat strange then that enterprise linux is not more common, you get stability and configurability.

I mostly put this down to bad salesmanship/C*s tending to be effectively technological cavemen...perhaps there are backroom deals we are not privy to, though.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#168

Post by deafpolygon »

0000000000100 wrote: post #146
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've been daily driving Linux since March 2020 however recently purchased a Valve Index and decided to pop Win 10 on a completely empty secondary M.2. The setup kept failing because it just could not handle the fact that the primary M.2 had a Linux boot loader on it. It just refused to install. That's better than what has happened to me with prior versions of Windows: the Windows installer just deleted the Linux bo…

Even doing it the opposite way around still doesn't work (installing Windows first, and then replacing the Windows bootloader). Every time there is a Windows update that is "major" enough, it will wipe the existing Linux bootloader. I lived like that for about a year, but eventually just gave up and stuck to Windows. I like Linux a lot, but I've found that I save more time using Windows then trying to get Linux to wo…

> The UI updates just took all the negatives of using a Mac, but without any the parts that make it actually useful.

then

> I miss being able to see the title of windows in the taskbar...

You can't do that on a mac either.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#169

Post by selfhoster11 »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #66

These articles are probably important to really drive the point home, but I also have a bit of a sense that they are akin to saying "the face eating leopard is eating people's faces". Idk as I approach ten years without windows, the decline has been obvious for a long time. But I suppose when you try to stick with it and use the system there is a part of the brain that really tries to look past this stuff, and then o…

It’s not just that. I personally only use Windows 10 for gaming, and no Windows besides on the daily basis, though I used to be a huge fan. Going back once in a while to see what Windows n+1 is up to, is almost like a mourning experience.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#170

Post by midoridensha »

mdmglr wrote: post #118
WWLink wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like what does it want to be? Is it an OS or an advertisement platform. It's an OS created for enterprise corporations to support and manage the actions of their employees in a digital world. First and foremost. Most MS products are. The ad platform is MS trying to find ways to continue growing profits. :D

> Is it an OS or an advertisement platform. OS for enterprise customers and Windows Pro users who know how to use Group Policy. Advertisement platform for everyone else. Sad times.

No, it's good times. Look at MSFT's stock price. Despite the lousy market, they're doing pretty well.

You can whine all you want about the user experience being terrible, but that literally doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is how profitable the company is, and the value it provides to shareholders. Nothing else is important.

If customers don't like being bombarded by ads in their OS, they're free to choose something else. Alternatives are available, but most users don't want to bother looking.

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