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Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

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Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#161

Post by peterxpark »

badpun wrote: post #137
FlyingSnake wrote: post #8

Entrepreneurship is like one of those carnival games where you throw darts or something. Middle class kids can afford one throw. Most miss. A few hit the target and get a small prize. A very few hit the center bullseye and get a bigger prize. Rags to riches! The American Dream lives on. Rich kids can afford many throws. If they want to, they can try over and over and over again until they hit something and feel good…

> Poor kids aren't visiting the carnival. They're the ones working it. Aren't many first-generation immigrants (Koreans etc.) in the US entrepreneurs? They're certainly not middle class, and yet they make in it the business world.

As a son of Korean entrepreneur immigrants, I can say that many of them work less than minimum wage per hour at their business. These bets can work out but it can also be worse than their employees.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#162

Post by Dig1t »

FlyingSnake wrote: post #8

Entrepreneurship is like one of those carnival games where you throw darts or something. Middle class kids can afford one throw. Most miss. A few hit the target and get a small prize. A very few hit the center bullseye and get a bigger prize. Rags to riches! The American Dream lives on. Rich kids can afford many throws. If they want to, they can try over and over and over again until they hit something and feel good…

I’ve seen this analogy repeatedly many times and it’s becoming a meme.

I think this is wrong and that it trivializes people’s accomplishments and hard work as nothing but random chance.

There are tons of examples of entrepreneurs who came from nothing that spent long periods of time living with their parents and eating ramen, grinding until they finally made it.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#163

Post by wootland »

czbond wrote: post #125
wootland wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how most generational wealth was created. From mobsters that went "legit" (Bronfmans, Kennedys...) to people who build their fortunes off war profiteering, slavery, genocide, child labor... They weren't grinding away for 40-100 years at some labor job. They exploited people, captured the gains, then used the power law to stay on the top.

Sure - those are some very specific examples. But whatever town you're in, drive around the nice areas. Those $1M-$5M houses with BMW's or etc. Are they gangsters and warlords? No, they're just normal people who tried and took a different path. Some by luck, some by skill, some by experience. Just as one can't judge a person who's on the streets - one can't judge a wealthy person with such lenses.

The vast majority of those people are middle/upper-middle class people in massive debt. The kind of upper-class Harvard grad that VCs like are most definitely of the old money variety.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#164

Post by icedchai »

wootland wrote: post #122
czbond wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realize the game you and your family are playing. Middle class have 3 paths out: - Single shot entrepreneurship - Repeated entrepreneurship with a job (no free nights or weekends) - Long term, multi generational wealth building over the course of 40-100 years with a mixture of stable career or above A wealthy family did the above but a generation or two before you or yours & someone else is reaping the benefit. Don't…

That's not how most generational wealth was created. From mobsters that went "legit" (Bronfmans, Kennedys...) to people who build their fortunes off war profiteering, slavery, genocide, child labor... They weren't grinding away for 40-100 years at some labor job. They exploited people, captured the gains, then used the power law to stay on the top.

How do you define generational wealth? 7 figures? 8? 9? There are many small to medium sized family businesses that were not built on criminal or immoral activities.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#165

Post by daemoens »

orangepurple wrote: post #147
inconceivable wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i also sold in 2021 when the money flowed easy. i'm not set for life but i could easily go 10 years, longer if i sold assets. eventually the burnout faded, my health improved (knock on wood) and the boredom got to me after 1.5 years and i'm working again. working on personal projects "for fun" is not the same as making money, no matter what anyone says. buying expensive shit is awesome for a while but it gets old. es…

Consider the hypothetical case of a man who can have anything he wants just by wishing for it. Such a man has power, but he will develop serious psychological problems. At first he will have a lot of fun, but by and by he will become acutely bored and demoralized. Eventually he may become clinically depressed. History shows that leisured aristocracies tend to become decadent. This is not true of fighting aristocracie…

I've never seen anybody cite the Unabomber before.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#166

Post by itsaquicknote »

marpstar wrote: post #89
komali2 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I have lost my marriage along the way, and I have definitely lost a few years of life expectancy. > I really wonder if it was really all worth it. Wait, are you saying you don't think you'd have lost the marriage if you didn't do the startup? Surely it wasn't worth it if so?

A lost marriage isn't always for the worst.

And sometimes it is.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#167

Post by wootland »

icedchai wrote: post #164
wootland wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how most generational wealth was created. From mobsters that went "legit" (Bronfmans, Kennedys...) to people who build their fortunes off war profiteering, slavery, genocide, child labor... They weren't grinding away for 40-100 years at some labor job. They exploited people, captured the gains, then used the power law to stay on the top.

How do you define generational wealth? 7 figures? 8? 9? There are many small to medium sized family businesses that were not built on criminal or immoral activities.

I'd say 8,9 or 10. Generally people who would be considered LPs for VCs and have political and/or media influence. It is the children of these people that are highly over represented in the executive and funded entrepreneur ranks.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#168

Post by ROTMetro »

jonnycomputer wrote: post #148
FlyingSnake wrote: post #8

Entrepreneurship is like one of those carnival games where you throw darts or something. Middle class kids can afford one throw. Most miss. A few hit the target and get a small prize. A very few hit the center bullseye and get a bigger prize. Rags to riches! The American Dream lives on. Rich kids can afford many throws. If they want to, they can try over and over and over again until they hit something and feel good…

Actually, poor people start lots of businesses, particularly immigrant families. In lots of cases those tend to be mom-and-pop operations, not things intended to become unicorns or anything, just enough to afford independence from "the man", or to give the kids an opportunity to get an education etc. (Kim's Convenience really gets at this dynamic pretty well for immigrant families). Often times too, poor people's bus…

When I lived in California there were yearly stories about homemade cheese that was getting sold and killing people and a push to remind people of this reality. The 'licensing requirements' are there for a reason, around food the reason is to prevent deaths or permanent disabilities from food poisoning.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#169

Post by vhanda »

prottog wrote: post #135
coldtea wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gotta disagree with this. As someone who grew up middle class, I was fortunate, in a lot of ways, to also learn to be prudent with money. I started bootstrapping microbusinesses with almost no monetary investment. This eventually allowed me to support myself (on a very low budget), and then, later, on a slightly larger budget. Eventually, one of these businesses became successful enough to support a family comforta…

> What matters is aggregate outcomes In the aggregate, nobody starts a business. It's hard work with lots of risks. Most everyone prefers to exchange their time and labor for a stable income.

The aggregate is the number of attempts at "Entrepreneurship" across class boundaries. The thesis is that Middle class kids get far fewer attempts vs richer kids.

In that context, counting where the number of attempts is 0 doesn't add anything to the thesis.

Re: Entrepreneurs who regret starting businesses

#170

Post by detourdog »

detourdog wrote: post #109
coldtea wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If fairness is not an "ideal goal" what is? > The best things in my life have come from when I faced adversity, not when I was in a position of privilege Does that hold for kids hungry and unable to finish school because their parents don't make enough then? (Or much worse situations)?

The hard thing to understand about privilege is that it may have just as many constrictions as having nothing. They are different but can be every bit as challenging to a good life.

I guess people want to believe that if only they were born with more privilege they would be happier and have more freedom to fail. I find that attitude makes the person and circumstances. I won't deny having one's mom rub elbows with the chairman of IBM is a very rare privilege.
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