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There's something off about LED bulbs

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Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#161

Post by organsnyder »

userbinator wrote: post #41
thrdbndndn wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LED emitters driven hard for cost reasons > Power supplies driven hard for cost reasons Can you elaborate? What does "hard" mean here, I don't understand.

At the limits of their ratings. They could make LED bulbs last many orders of magnitude longer and be more efficient, but they don't (unless forced to[1]) because they prefer planned obsolescence. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27093793

I've been installing Kauf brand smart-bulbs, which come pre-flashed with ESPHome for integration with Home Assistant. Some of my earlier bulbs failed, and I recently noticed that the founder of the company commented on the issue and said he specced a more robust capacitor after early failures: https://github.com/KaufHA/kauf-rgbww-bulbs/issues/31#issueco...

I haven't contacted them for replacements yet, but seeing their comment makes me much more likely to purchase them in the future, despite my early issues.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#162

Post by ajross »

DougN7 wrote: post #135
amluto wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same light quality is vastly more expensive to achieve with LEDs, even if you account for high electricity prices. In a screw base, maybe. But compare: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/luminus-devices-i... $25 for an excellent 700mA driver, 86% efficient. https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/bridgelux/BXRH-30... $3.45 for a very nice, ~2000lm 97 CRI LED, about 99 lm/W. (Efficiency goes up quite…

This is just an anecdote, but I’ve had multiple “10 year” LED bulbs fail after just a year or two. I suspect much of the claims for these bulbs are theoretical as they just don’t hold up, probably for reasons the grandparent poster is pointing out.

I have too. I have significantly more in my 11-year-old renovation that are still working. That's just the way statistics work.

A lot of this topic smells like typical geek snobbery. They're lights, folks. Cheap consumer products have always been cheap. Halogen bulbs suck too.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#163

Post by samstave »

formerly_proven wrote: post #24

There's a lot wrong with LEDs in general and retrofit (E27 bulbs) in particular. In no particular order - LED emitters driven hard for cost reasons, age and fail quickly - Power supplies driven hard for cost reasons, age and fail quickly - Poor CRI and SSRI - Flickering - Dim-to-warm is uncommon - Poorly designed power supplies that age and fail quickly - The same light quality is vastly more expensive to achieve wit…

I have every single light bulb in my house (and outside my house) as an LED RGB Alexa-addressible light, and I love it.

"Set all the lights to red" and every single bulb in my house and porch and walkway and garage etc, all turn red.

"Turn on/off all the light"

Set kitchen to firebrick...

Etc.

I LOVE IT.

During the day I rarely have any lights on at all - but at night I have precise control over every bulb in my house with alexa voice.

I initially would never have put alexa in my home, but now that I have it and all bulbs on it, as well as several alexa-fied power outlets, its just a very nice thing to have.

Im not too concerned over "lighting quality" - as I get exactly what I want.

The bulbs I bought were from Costco, where they had them on sale for $5 for a (2) pack. so I replaced all CFLs with RGB Wifi LEDs with alexa, and it was ~$70 to do the whole house (27) bulbs.

EDIT: Dimmability "Alexa Set Kitchen to 10%" --> I can dim or brighten all the lights at once "Alexa set house to 100%" etc...

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#164

Post by ghaff »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #144
DoneWithAllThat wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not, nor will I ever, excuse penny-pinching by companies by agreeing that they’re forced to do it because people will always buy the cheapest thing they can. It’s trotted out as the lame excuse for bag check fees and other declining flying services, cheap consumer goods, cheap electronics, you name it. To accept the premise is to believe that anything made of quality will never get bought/used which is manifestl…

>To accept the premise is to believe that anything made of quality will never get bought/used which is manifestly not the case. I disagree. It is a ratio of quality to price. People have different opinions about what the acceptable minimum ratio is, and it varies by product, and by time. For example, many people find Costco to hit the right ratio most of the time. For example, I have been using LEDs and dimmable LEDs…

And it's a matter of individual consumer priorities.

Some consumers will happily pay for business class seating on planes. Others will generally overlook inconvenience and less comfort if they can save $50.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#165

Post by anotheryou »

btbuilder wrote: post #123
cramjabsyn wrote: post #89

Cheap LED bulbs generate the worst light I’ve ever experienced. But after some research I found that there are options that make a nice warm light with no perceptible flickering. Personally I prefer the phillips warm glow dimmable bulbs

Have you had any lifetime issues with these? I bought a dozen and a significant number started emitting warm color while at full brightness instead of just dimmed.

Mine lasted 3 years. (100w equivalent, 3 dim stages built in ("sceneswitch")).

Now I had some flickers in recent weeks but they went away again, not sure what had caused it.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#166

Post by kldavis4 »

DougN7 wrote: post #135
amluto wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same light quality is vastly more expensive to achieve with LEDs, even if you account for high electricity prices. In a screw base, maybe. But compare: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/luminus-devices-i... $25 for an excellent 700mA driver, 86% efficient. https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/bridgelux/BXRH-30... $3.45 for a very nice, ~2000lm 97 CRI LED, about 99 lm/W. (Efficiency goes up quite…

This is just an anecdote, but I’ve had multiple “10 year” LED bulbs fail after just a year or two. I suspect much of the claims for these bulbs are theoretical as they just don’t hold up, probably for reasons the grandparent poster is pointing out.

3 year warranty instead of 10, but I've had a lot of problems with Philips LED Flicker-Free Dimmable BR30 Indoor Light Bulb. They consistently die and need to be replaced within a year or so. I replaced a couple under warranty but just gave up after the hassle involved. I've tried other brands without success and would love to know what a good reliable alternative would be.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#167

Post by VLM »

formerly_proven wrote: post #24

There's a lot wrong with LEDs in general and retrofit (E27 bulbs) in particular. In no particular order - LED emitters driven hard for cost reasons, age and fail quickly - Power supplies driven hard for cost reasons, age and fail quickly - Poor CRI and SSRI - Flickering - Dim-to-warm is uncommon - Poorly designed power supplies that age and fail quickly - The same light quality is vastly more expensive to achieve wit…

The e-waste issues of having to replace entire LED units every two to three years are worse than replacing an old fashioned bulb every decade.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#168

Post by phoyd »

>If you’re lucky, the LED will have a CRI of 90 or higher

EU has banned incandescent lights years ago and the situation for LED buyers is much different here. My local drug store chain (Rossmann in Germany) sells 1000lm E27 bulbs under their own Rubin brand with CRI>97 for 4.99€. No flickering and available as 2700K or 4000K. My Opple Light Master 3 even reads CRI 100. So for me right now, it's just going to the drug store and buying a bulb, like before the ban.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#169

Post by Arubis »

brodouevencode wrote: post #147
doitLP wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out https://www.waveformlighting.com/ for some very high quality LEDs and education about how they work.

I can't imagine paying $150 for a six pack, when Home Depot's private label LEDs are $12 for a six pack. I could replace it 10 times before I hit that mark - not sure it's worth that.

If you told me you could make one room of my house consistently color-balanced with LED lighting that I would have no reason to hate, I would ball up a couple hundred dollar bills and throw them at you.

(Edit: I’m also coming from buying Philips Hue bulbs for precisely this reason, so in fairness, it’s not as big a price jump.)

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#170

Post by lotsofpulp »

ghaff wrote: post #164
lotsofpulp wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>To accept the premise is to believe that anything made of quality will never get bought/used which is manifestly not the case. I disagree. It is a ratio of quality to price. People have different opinions about what the acceptable minimum ratio is, and it varies by product, and by time. For example, many people find Costco to hit the right ratio most of the time. For example, I have been using LEDs and dimmable LEDs…

And it's a matter of individual consumer priorities. Some consumers will happily pay for business class seating on planes. Others will generally overlook inconvenience and less comfort if they can save $50.

Yes, another example is clothing. I have no interest in buying high quality clothing that I have to spend time taking care of. I want whatever lasts longest, while still being able to throw in the washer and dryer on default settings without having to separate colors.
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