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Framework Laptop 16

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Re: Framework Laptop 16

#161

Post by cehrlich »

panick21_ wrote: post #104

One of my favorite things for keyboards is the ThinkPad feature where the Page Up and Page Down is above the Left and Right key. I don't understand why others don't do this, its so practical. Specially in cases like this, there is just an empty space there. Why not put 2 more keys? ThinkPad also makes them full sized keys, that would be even better. But just having empty space? Why?

The exciting thing to me is that if there is enough demand, someone can make a keyboard module without having to make a whole laptop.

Thinkpad-style? Sure! Ortholinear? Why not!

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#162

Post by semireg »

cowpig wrote: post #151

What's the battery life going to be for this one? My biggest issue by far with the Framework 13 is that the battery life is really bad (at least with linux). Less than 2 hours of normal use is not really workable. Will this one do better?

That was the first thing I did: Ctrl-F "battery" ... "Not Found"

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#163

Post by blakblakarak »

afavour wrote: post #112
dakial1 wrote: post #87

I wonder if there is a market for a framework gaming laptop. Really hope there is. Also, on another note, I've read this engadget article about how other companies tried to build an upgradeable laptop and failed but I see Framework as a different kind of beast for one simple reason. This is their only value proposition, they don't have an alternative. In a very "Innovator's Dilemma" kind of. way, Dell and other big m…

I’d be surprised if there was a market for a Framework laptop dedicated to gaming but I am really intrigued by a Framework laptop that can game. I use my laptop for my work software engineering but since the pandemic have gotten back into gaming a little. I’m on an old Xbox and it’s showing its age but I don’t game enough to justify buying a whole gaming PC. If I can plug a GPU into my work machine and play some game…

Personally I use an Xbox Series X and just stream my games to my phone or macbook air (using https://github.com/unknownskl/xbox-xcloud-client/releases) - performance is great.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#164

Post by _fat_santa »

afavour wrote: post #112
dakial1 wrote: post #87

I wonder if there is a market for a framework gaming laptop. Really hope there is. Also, on another note, I've read this engadget article about how other companies tried to build an upgradeable laptop and failed but I see Framework as a different kind of beast for one simple reason. This is their only value proposition, they don't have an alternative. In a very "Innovator's Dilemma" kind of. way, Dell and other big m…

I’d be surprised if there was a market for a Framework laptop dedicated to gaming but I am really intrigued by a Framework laptop that can game. I use my laptop for my work software engineering but since the pandemic have gotten back into gaming a little. I’m on an old Xbox and it’s showing its age but I don’t game enough to justify buying a whole gaming PC. If I can plug a GPU into my work machine and play some game…

> Framework laptop dedicated to gaming

Isn't one of the advantages of Framework that you can swap out parts, so it would be much easier for them (theoretically) to build a gaming version of the laptop.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#166

Post by kmeisthax »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #123
bleep_bloop wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any 13" laptops on the market with more than 4 ports? None that come to my mind. My macbook air has only 2 x USB C and I've never come across a situation where I needed more. For a 13" 4 ports is more than most people require and it wouldn't make sense for a small start up to only target extremely niche use cases.

The X1 Carbon has two USB-C, two USB-A, a full-sized HDMI, and a headphone jack. I don't personally feel like the framework 13 needs more than 4 expansion bays, but I'd love to see expansion cards that use Thunderbolt to offer (for instance) two USB-C ports, or a USB-C and a USB-A. (There are some experimental unofficial ones attempting this.) If those were available, my four expansion bays would be one Ethernet, one…

There's been discussion of multi-port cards for a while. The main problem is how many different things you can shove on top of USB-C:

- USB 2/3

- Power delivery

- DisplayPort[0]

- PCI Express

- Analog audio

- USB4

You need some kind of chip that can negotiate two ports' worth of that nonsense and appropriately multiplex them into the correct set of altmodes on the interior port. Some of them have readily available and widely implemented hub silicon. Some of them require cursed nonsense like DisplayPort MST[1]. Some of them don't even have a hub mechanism - what do you do if someone plugs in two analog audio dongles? Mix the signals together?

Furthermore, as far as I'm aware such a "miracle dongle" chip does not exist. If it did, it very much would not fit inside the tiny footprint that a Framework expansion card does. One key thing to note is that because USB-C is reversible, all the high-speed data modes need a mux chip per port. So even a simple USB3 hub card with no power delivery or altmode support is going to need either several support chips or hideously expensive-to-design Framework silicon.

As it currently stands the state of multi-port USB-C dongles is absolutely terrible. Just... go to your local Best Buy, and look at the terrible compatibility of the multi-port dongles in the Apple section.

[0] There used to be an HDMI altmode, nobody uses it. All HDMI-to-USB-C dongles on the market are actually HDMI-to-DisplayPort-to-USB-C dongles.

I'm not mentioning the really cursed altmodes like MyDP (Nintendo Switch dock) or VirtualLink (VR headsets). That last one violates spec by reusing the USB 2 pins, necessitating the existence of bespoke 2-to-3 silicon that only people who hate USB 2 audio noise bother with.

[1] I didn't understand why Apple banned MST until I had to use it:

I have a triple monitor setup that needs to go over two optical cables to my computer in another room. The first MST hub I tried would hang Windows for so long I triggered some kind of display detection failsafe that bluescreens the kernel. The second one (an older standard) worked decently, except it wouldn't pass through EDID for one of my monitors. I worked around that with custom resolutions, which stopped working last September in a really weird way. If I connect all three monitors through the MST hub, the GPU cursor overlay refuses to move onto any monitor behind the hub. And that's only with the combination of MST + custom resolutions: if I only have one monitor on it's fine, if I give the other monitor a third cable it's fine.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#167

Post by nrp »

dakial1 wrote: post #87

I wonder if there is a market for a framework gaming laptop. Really hope there is. Also, on another note, I've read this engadget article about how other companies tried to build an upgradeable laptop and failed but I see Framework as a different kind of beast for one simple reason. This is their only value proposition, they don't have an alternative. In a very "Innovator's Dilemma" kind of. way, Dell and other big m…

We’ve been very deliberate about making this not a traditional gaming laptop, but a laptop that can be configured with enough performance to play intense games. You can configure it without the Graphics Module and have a high-performance 16” notebook with reconfigurable input and easy repairability and upgradeabilty.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#169

Post by aos »

afavour wrote: post #112
dakial1 wrote: post #87

I wonder if there is a market for a framework gaming laptop. Really hope there is. Also, on another note, I've read this engadget article about how other companies tried to build an upgradeable laptop and failed but I see Framework as a different kind of beast for one simple reason. This is their only value proposition, they don't have an alternative. In a very "Innovator's Dilemma" kind of. way, Dell and other big m…

I’d be surprised if there was a market for a Framework laptop dedicated to gaming but I am really intrigued by a Framework laptop that can game. I use my laptop for my work software engineering but since the pandemic have gotten back into gaming a little. I’m on an old Xbox and it’s showing its age but I don’t game enough to justify buying a whole gaming PC. If I can plug a GPU into my work machine and play some game…

I game on a framework laptop with an eGPU. I have a Razor Core Chroma with a Radeon 2060. There’s plenty of guides out there to get it up and running [^1]. I did try to get it working under Linux but wayland support for Nvidia is still a mess. For now, I’ve been dual-booting Windows to play my games on. It works really well.

1. https://egpu.io/best-external-graphics-card-builds/

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#170

Post by nrp »

liamN wrote: post #130
itronitron wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I wonder if there is a market for a framework gaming laptop. Yes, there is. We have four in our family, since ~2018, and three of them continue to run without issue. The main weak point for the 4th one has been the hinges and case. It happens to be a later model so I think the company 'value-engineered' it to have a shorter lifespan.

I wont discount that as a possibility, but it kind of goes against the company's mission, so I think thats kind of unlikely. A more likely explanation (in my mind) is that being a small company, there's a lot more variability of quality in each unit's parts than you would see from a larger company with more mature factories etc. My partner and I both have frameworks, but mine has had a lot of issues with the track pa…

I think the poster is stating that their family has four gaming laptops, but zero Framework Laptops, since our first product only shipped in 2021.

On your trackpad, could you reach out to our support team? We definitely want to resolve that for you.

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