US bars friends over Twitter joke • Hacker News Board

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#161

Post by cookiecaper » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 4:44 PM UTC

nkoren wrote: post #149

beedogs wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I left the country in 2008, and I'm wondering if I'll ever go back. It's only gotten worse since I've been gone. It's almost to the point where I'm not even sure I want to visit any time soon.

Same story here. Left in 2007, and no longer have any desire to return. My last visit, in 2010, left quite a bad taste in my mouth, with the creeping totalitarianism on display at the airports in particular. Welcome to America: don't forget that WE ARE ALWAYS WATCHING YOU. What's especially depressing is that the commitment to paranoia and the dismantling of due process, civil rights, etc., is 100% bipartisan; there…

Don't forget Ron Paul as one of Obama's serious opponents that still advocates liberty.

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#162

Post by rbanffy » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 4:45 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #140

michael_dorfman wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I left in 1997, and haven't visited since. You get used to it.

I left in 2008, and I visit a few times a year because your last assertion is dead wrong. It sucks, very very badly. I wish I could stop going back. But all of my people are there, almost without exception.

I know you have your reasons to leave, but it makes me sad when the good people, the ones who could do something because they can see what's wrong, leave.

The US may be far from perfect, but it's important as a country founded upon the right ideas. If it crumbles, we all lose, regardless of where we live.

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#163

Post by fluidcruft » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 4:46 PM UTC

nkoren wrote: post #149

beedogs wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I left the country in 2008, and I'm wondering if I'll ever go back. It's only gotten worse since I've been gone. It's almost to the point where I'm not even sure I want to visit any time soon.

Same story here. Left in 2007, and no longer have any desire to return. My last visit, in 2010, left quite a bad taste in my mouth, with the creeping totalitarianism on display at the airports in particular. Welcome to America: don't forget that WE ARE ALWAYS WATCHING YOU. What's especially depressing is that the commitment to paranoia and the dismantling of due process, civil rights, etc., is 100% bipartisan; there…

The eye on the dollar is the panopticon.

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#164

Post by tokenadult » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 4:47 PM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #91

mseebach wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US spend a very large portion of the 20th century being significantly freer than most other places on earth. Certainly not perfect (especially not if you were black, Japanese, gay or communist), that would be a silly claim, but freer.

But, for the whole of the 20th century, I think, one could make the argument that there were places freer, particularly if one happened to be a member of one of the US's more hated minority groups. From WW2 to the 60s, if you happened to be a racial minority, there was almost no-where less free in the developed world; the US was extremely late amongst developed countries to grant universal suffrage.

the US was extremely late amongst developed countries to grant universal suffrage

I'll agree with you that the civil rights movement beginning in the 1960s was necessary for the United States to extend the benefits of freedom to all its citizens. But universal suffrage for women came significantly earlier in the United States than it did in Switzerland, for example, and black people in my state (Minnesota) have always been able to vote and to own property and to marry whomever of whatever race and so on since before Minnesota became a state (which, indeed, was one of the points of the Dred Scott case, in which a slave tried to become free by claiming that his passage through the free territory of Minnesota should end his condition of slavery). The Civil War was a necessary reaction to totalitarian denial of basic human rights by the Confederate states, and the civil rights movement after World War II was a necessary response to the deplorable segregation that still occurred in those states long after the Civil War, but everyone in some regions of the United States has long recognized that slavery and Jim Crow segregation were both aberrations, gone in some states from the beginning, and always contrary to the basic principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights (and the bills of rights in various state constitutions).

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#165

Post by mc32 » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 4:48 PM UTC

beedogs wrote: post #73

nextparadigms wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US is done as the "land of the free". It's still very hard for many people to believe it, but it's true. I mean it's 47th place in the world for freedom of press now - 47th! That's far from the beacon of freedom US used to be. Whenever I see the heavily armed and militarized police in US and how they react to protesters, it's like I'm watching news about Russia or something.

I left the country in 2008, and I'm wondering if I'll ever go back. It's only gotten worse since I've been gone. It's almost to the point where I'm not even sure I want to visit any time soon.

I left in 2006 for two years. As a foreigner in East Asia, it felt freer in some ways. But I think that was a combination of one, perception and two, getting breaks as a foreigner. Foreigners are given slack because they aren't expected to know the small details of whats accepted and not. They expect we know the big goods and bads but not the small ones.

And then there was perception --just not being aware of what was allowed and not. I do recall people telling me that mocking the president was not allowed. Anyhow, I'm back and I feel ok. It could be better, idealistically, I suppose, but it's not as bad as it would seem, vis a vis other places.

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#166

Post by maaku » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 4:53 PM UTC

lignuist wrote: post #21

perfunctory wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what? So that they can spot real terrorists who post their plans on-line?

For instance... No, it was more a joke. :) I think we all know, that trying to catch terrorist via twitter is pointless.

Perhaps, but it's a reasonable way to catch mentally unstable people acting out crazy fantasies... Such people might actually post their plans on twitter.

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#167

Post by squarecat » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 4:54 PM UTC

jgrahamc wrote: post #60

corin_ wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only The Sun could make an article in the Daily Mail appear good by comparison. Amazing quote from the girl in this piece though: "We just wanted to have a good time on holiday. That was all Leigh meant in his tweet. He would not hurt anyone. He is gay.' Wondering if I can use that as evidence that I wouldn't hurt anything if I ever have any problems with the TSA..

Reading Ms. Banting's Twitter stream makes me wonder if they weren't really barred from entry on the grounds of being total numbskulls.

Based on my casual observations from inside the padded walls, this would be counter to the apparent goals of the shadow government.

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#168

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 4:55 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#169

Post by cookiecaper » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 4:59 PM UTC

gee_totes wrote: post #146

rachelbythebay wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the sort of discussion I'd love to hear. There's surprisingly little about the privacy ramifications here of somehow associating real people to an online account. Granted, the tech exists. Google has been doing it for a while now. Anyone who's gotten the little "is this you?" thing when doing a search knows what I'm talking about.

I wonder how many false positives happen with these match ups. Or if the people in question could have just denied that they made the tweets. This also makes me super freaked out about Google+'s real names policy, since it will literally be providing the United States Government with a massive surveillance network.

Why are you more worried about Google+ than Facebook?

Re: US bars friends over Twitter joke

#170

Post by tokenadult » Mon, Jan 30, 2012, 5:00 PM UTC

Maybe it's time to differ from hivemind here. I should make clear that I cherish my right as an American, which I exercise liberally at home and abroad, to criticize the American government in general. I also like to call out specific elected or appointed officials (for example, the President, whoever he is each term) any time I think they are making mistakes. Participants on Hacker News who are also my Facebook friends know that I am not in the least bit shy about expressing political opinions contrary to those of the United States federal government leaders or those of my state government. That said, I think a foreign national kidding around about a trip in which he or she will "destroy America" shouldn't be surprised to be questioned about that by law enforcement officers. I have traveled to other countries, and have lived in another country as a long-term resident, and I don't express to cross a border without someone from the other country checking me out to see if I will obey the laws while I am in their country.

As a more general statement contrary to the main thrust of comments here, I have no fear that the United States of America will lose out on immigrants or business visitors any time soon. Any time here on Hacker News that we have a thread about United States visa policies, dozens of participants complain that they wish it was easier to come to the United States to do business, to visit, or to settle permanently. The United States is still a huge draw to people from all over the world, as I was especially aware when I lived in an international dormitory with students from all over the globe in another country. The rate of immigration to the United States has ups and downs, with the downs coming especially at times when the United States economy is in depression or recession, but on the whole the United States is one of the few countries in the world that still count on sustained, large, long-term population growth from net immigration alone, even if the rate of natural increase falls below replacement levels. (And it could be argued that the below-replacement birth rates of many countries are parents' expression of little hope for their countries' futures, as they are not even willing to have children in those countries. The United States still has an above-replacement birth rate and thus also enjoys natural increase in population.)

So, yes, let's criticize the United States whenever any liberties of persons in the United States are curtailed, but let's be realistic about where else people can travel and kid around about socially harmful or illegal behavior. If one is to leave the United States for more freedom, where would one go? (Fewer examples have been named in other comments than I would have expected, so far.) Considering ALL the trade-offs, which places are really, truly plainly better places to live than the United States? Which places are better to visit for tourism?