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Speak English to me: The secret world of programmers

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Re: Speak English to me: The secret world of programmers

#161

Isn’t this applicable to pretty much all domains of knowledge? ‘Just change the oil yourself, it’s easy’, says the auto mechanic. ‘Just add the circuit yourself, it’s easy’, says the home electrician. There’s a term for this, but I can’t recall it.

I believe the "curse of knowledge" is what you're looking for!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_knowledge

Re: Speak English to me: The secret world of programmers

#163
It's important to consider your audience and there are all kinds of tools to bridge the gap. If you really want someone non-technical to work on a Markdown file with you, show them a nice online Markdown editor with a live preview. If they asked me how to convert a video, instead of recommending ffmpeg I'd recommend an ffmpeg wrapper like Handbrake.

Re: Speak English to me: The secret world of programmers

#164
> "First off," I reply, "No. And second off,

This is a super condescending thing to say. Let's say you're a lawyer telling a client why you can't do something. The language you're using is pretty harsh.

> Maybe I just need to have a little more empathy (or is it sympathy?) for normal people.

You are also a "normal person" I don't understand why developers sometimes think they are gods or something.

> Can you help with my printer. No

No explanation on this one at all? That, again, is a rude response.

I've been saying this for a while, but the pay we provide to developers was a mistake. It has created a class of people that think they are gods. Come down from your soap box, learn real empathy, decide you are a Normal Person yourself and get rid of your condescending attitude.

Re: Speak English to me: The secret world of programmers

#165
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most lol. You only hiring MIT and Stanford grads?

I was taught how to get around a UNIX box in CS 101 at a state school.

Purdue CS in the mid/late 1990s. All coursework, if it wasn’t handwritten on paper, was developed and submitted with your account on the department UNIX cluster.

I switched majors so didn’t have any freshman courses; I certainly hope they taught people how to use the system. You couldn’t pass a class, let alone graduate, without being able to use UNIX.

There were a few side benefits to this setup. First, it allowed you to use the Sun pizza boxes in the engineering admin building, which were insanely powerful (back then). Second, it meant you could use any computer lab on campus, because they all had terminal emulators installed. So while the average student waiting in line for an open Windows PC, you could go down the hall and sit down at a Mac in a lab that had maybe two other people in it. Third, you could submit all your print jobs to the service center in the basement of the math building, where they’d collated, staple, whatever you wanted and then put it in a mailbox for you to collect at your own convenience, rather than deal with the clown show at the printers in all the Windows computer labs.

Good times

Re: Speak English to me: The secret world of programmers

#166

> "First off," I reply, "No. And second off, This is a super condescending thing to say. Let's say you're a lawyer telling a client why you can't do something. The language you're using is pretty harsh. > Maybe I just need to have a little more empathy (or is it sympathy?) for normal people. You are also a "normal person" I don't understand why developers sometimes think they are gods or something. > Can you help wit…

> You are also a "normal person" I don't understand why developers sometimes think they are gods or something.

I can't tell you how much I loathe the label "normies".

Re: Speak English to me: The secret world of programmers

#167

> "First off," I reply, "No. And second off, This is a super condescending thing to say. Let's say you're a lawyer telling a client why you can't do something. The language you're using is pretty harsh. > Maybe I just need to have a little more empathy (or is it sympathy?) for normal people. You are also a "normal person" I don't understand why developers sometimes think they are gods or something. > Can you help wit…

> I've been saying this for a while, but the pay we provide to developers was a mistake. It has created a class of people that think they are gods.

I think you've got it backwards there. I agree with everything else you said, and hopefully the author was being tongue in cheek, but this is silly. Developers have a specialized skill and get paid specialized wages. The behavior you're describing is not limited to developers..any profession that has a specialized set of skills and a specialized language that only the "in" people understand has the same issues.

Re: Speak English to me: The secret world of programmers

#168
post #16

Yeah, I feel this. I recently added a .tool-versions file to a website repository (that non-programmers need to edit) and updated the README to say "install asdf ( https://asdf-vm.com/ ) and then run `pnpm install`". And then I saw people try to follow the instructions and start needing to install Xcode, then Homebrew, etc., and it took forever. I think the right solution is to give them a 1-click cloud IDE with the…

Cloud IDEs are a "simple, obvious, and wrong" answer to this well-known and widely felt problem. By this point, it's not an untested path; the benefits have either failed to materialize or are outweighed by the downsides. Fortunately, the downsides can be ameliorated, and it's a pretty simple change:

If you're comfortable with the idea of people doing cloud-backed development through their Web browser, then go ahead and write your toolchain against ubiquitous browser APIs, but just take out the "cloud" part—the tools should still run on the programmer's own machine, just like traditional toolchains. Browsers are quite capable of opening/running .html (or .htm or .xhtml) files that come from the user's disk instead of over HTTP. (Crucially, though, actually following this workflow should itself be optional; target the browser as a reliable baseline, sure—but if you're clever, though, you can write a redistributable program that the browser will dutifully execute so long as it has the right file extension but that also allows you to enjoy the benefits of running it from the terminal if you're happiest doing things that way.)

Re: Speak English to me: The secret world of programmers

#170
Linux sysadmin here. I’ve come across plenty of documentation, I’m almost certain was written by a dev, where it’s assumed I know the correct command line usage or concepts. I know a lot more than the average end user, but I’m _not_ a dev, either.

And please… (to those writing docs) always include examples. So many man pages lack examples; it can be very frustrating.

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