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Mario Kart Tour Triggers You into Gambling Your Money

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Re: Mario Kart Tour Triggers You into Gambling Your Money

#161

Post by chongli »

endemic wrote: post #158
chongli wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's when I learned what a greedy exploitative platform it is I bought a game (Spelunky) on the Switch online shop. Nintendo then proceeded to send me constant emails about how my “coins are expiring.” So they award coins for purchases which you can save up to get “free” games, but then make them gradually expire if you don’t use them. What kind of high pressure sales tactic is this? I was really turned off. I can…

The coins are a "fun" value add thing. You can get small discounts on digital games if you use the gold ones. The silver ones can get you various digital/physical goodies. You're not missing out if you don't use them.

Why make them expire though? Even worse, they expire the coins gradually, stretching it out as long as possible, like radioactive decay. And they send you an email to remind you every time a few coins expire.

This is not fun! This is straightforward psychological manipulation! It’s taking people’s loss aversion [1] and grinding it as hard as possible for as much profit as they can. This is especially bad when you consider that they are a family-oriented company that primarily markets to children.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion

Re: Mario Kart Tour Triggers You into Gambling Your Money

#162

Post by TehShrike »

sharkweek wrote: post #134
guelo wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never been into Nintendo but after having kids I kept hearing this about how great they are for families so I bought a Switch. That's when I learned what a greedy exploitative platform it is: overcharging for games, nickle and dimeing for everything, and abusing their fan's nostalgia. I definitely don't want to get my kids invested in their platform so I got rid of the Switch. Steam has more than we need anyway.…

Random question for the HN crowd piggybacking off your comment: What age did you introduce video games to your kids? My oldest is 5 and I let him tinker on the PS5 when I’m around playing things like Sonic or he really likes Astro’s Playworld. We limit it to maybe 15-20 min a day but I swear it’s like I tell people I let him watch R-rated movies or something when I mention that I let him play video games at his age.…

We let our oldest start pretty young. He could beat Monument Valley at 3 and beat Shovel Knight at 5.

Our current limits for our 5 and 7 year old kids are one hour, three days a week.

In some ways it feels like letting them read visual novels. The media itself is usually great, I just worry about them getting used to the easiest forms.

Re: Mario Kart Tour Triggers You into Gambling Your Money

#163

Post by datavirtue »

freedomben wrote: post #160
currymj wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they didn't initially. their first mobile game, Super Mario Run, cost $10 and had none of the usual manipulative mobile game elements. People did not buy it so they switched to the same F2P nonsense as everyone else for future games.

They have the data so they would certainly know better than me, but my anecdotal experience was just so wildly different. I bought it, and nearly everyone I know did. It was a great game, and did not of the scummy things that so many games did! The always online and the "won't run on rooted device" checks were very annoying to me, but it didn't exceed my tolerance threshold. I and many others praised them for just ch…

Yeah, but you only spent $10. The investors aren't going to stand for that crap when all these other companies are scamming their way to thousands. $10 or $4000 in revenue...take your pick. Gambling needs defined and outlawed in every way possible.

The recent supreme court ruling that released the sports gambling hounds has me gobsmacked with absolute disbelief.

Re: Mario Kart Tour Triggers You into Gambling Your Money

#164

Post by datavirtue »

guelo wrote: post #120
Naga wrote: post #5

Nintendo has such a great, family friendly brand. If I was in charge, I wouldn't want my brand to be anywhere close to being associated to this type of thing.

I've never been into Nintendo but after having kids I kept hearing this about how great they are for families so I bought a Switch. That's when I learned what a greedy exploitative platform it is: overcharging for games, nickle and dimeing for everything, and abusing their fan's nostalgia. I definitely don't want to get my kids invested in their platform so I got rid of the Switch. Steam has more than we need anyway.…

The switch is also a UX nightmare. I can't believe the time and stress incurred to get profiles setup and purchase games. Completely drained my excitement. I have like four of them...all sit unused.

Re: Mario Kart Tour Triggers You into Gambling Your Money

#165

Post by klodolph »

BoorishBears wrote: post #122
klodolph wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple currency types are a key part of freemium / microtransaction games, but there are other reasons to have multiple currency types, and it’s becoming more and more common across all types of games. In a sense, games are often about managing resources. Currency is a resource. If you have one currency type, you can come up with a dominant strategy that maximizes production of that particular currency type. If you…

You setup a strawman (perhaps unintentionally) with this sentence: > Currency is a resource by ignoring the context of the comment you replied to, and the rest of your comment just builds upon that. Currency in this context is not just a resource, it's specifically resources tied into a system of microtransactions. So that includes currency you buy directly with money and currency that is accepted alongside purchasab…

To be honest I’m baffled by this comment. I’m not really trying to argue against anybody or against any specific viewpoint so the idea that I set up a strawman has me confused.

If you’re talking about rubies, emeralds, and gold, can you explain where those come from? Maybe provide a link?

As far as I know, in Mario Kart Tour the key limited currency is rubies. You can exchange rubies for coins, fire them into a pipe to get gacha, or various other things. This is similar to the other freemium games that I’ve played. Maybe my understanding of Mario Kart Tour is incorrect or incomplete.

Yes, there are multiple forms of currency, but only rubies are really limited. The other currencies can more or less be earned freely by playing the game (if I understand the game correctly). The ruby economy exists to get you to spend cash on the game. Likewise, in Hades, the weird economy of titan’s blood, diamonds, and nectar is what encourages you to complete the game using different combinations of weapons and heat levels.

Re: Mario Kart Tour Triggers You into Gambling Your Money

#166

Post by Aeolun »

I had the same thing when I was playing Sonic Racing on iOS. I have it through Apple Arcade, but it’s so clearly designed as a pay to win game.

The quality of your racing is unrelated to the result, and your opponent’s behavior is either a previous race someone else did, or otherwise completely made up.

Re: Mario Kart Tour Triggers You into Gambling Your Money

#167

Post by umvi »

causi wrote: post #34
preinheimer wrote: post #10

First, that was an amazing breakdown of what's happening. If you enjoyed reading that you might like Folding Ideas breakdown of Fortnite - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPHPNgIihR0 Second, I've personally become very wary of any mobile app that introduces multiple currency types. There's gold, and rubies, and power balls, and stardust! At some point pretty early on I decide it's not worth it to figure out how much…

Mobile games in general are garbage. Considering the number of games, you could just emulate console games for the rest of your life and in doing so only play games that were built as games, not exploitation machines.

> you could just emulate console games for the rest of your life and in doing so only play games that were built as games, not exploitation machines.

And if you run out of console games to emulate, there is a thriving rom hack community that has created some truly astonishing games (New Super Mario World 2: Around the World, Hyper Metroid, etc.)

Re: Mario Kart Tour Triggers You into Gambling Your Money

#168

Post by mewse »

chongli wrote: post #161
endemic wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The coins are a "fun" value add thing. You can get small discounts on digital games if you use the gold ones. The silver ones can get you various digital/physical goodies. You're not missing out if you don't use them.

Why make them expire though? Even worse, they expire the coins gradually, stretching it out as long as possible, like radioactive decay. And they send you an email to remind you every time a few coins expire. This is not fun! This is straightforward psychological manipulation! It’s taking people’s loss aversion [1] and grinding it as hard as possible for as much profit as they can. This is especially bad when you con…

I don't believe that's true; unused gold coins expire at the end of the same month during which you acquired them, one year later. (I believe silver/platinum coins are similar, but only last six months)

So for example if you acquired 10 gold coins during July 2020 (it doesn't matter when or how many purchases or how spread they are through the month), all ten of those coins would expire simultaneously at the end of July 2021, while any coins you acquired later would remain. It's not a radioactive decay at all; it's a simple expiration date on each individual coin, like you get on coupons or other incentive programs.

The coins expire for the same reason that coupons expire, airline loyalty program miles expire, etc -- they're a liability on the company's balance sheet which potentially could build up infinitely if there wasn't some limit to how long they needed to be tracked and redeemable.

Re: Mario Kart Tour Triggers You into Gambling Your Money

#169

Post by super256 »

chongli wrote: post #161
endemic wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The coins are a "fun" value add thing. You can get small discounts on digital games if you use the gold ones. The silver ones can get you various digital/physical goodies. You're not missing out if you don't use them.

Why make them expire though? Even worse, they expire the coins gradually, stretching it out as long as possible, like radioactive decay. And they send you an email to remind you every time a few coins expire. This is not fun! This is straightforward psychological manipulation! It’s taking people’s loss aversion [1] and grinding it as hard as possible for as much profit as they can. This is especially bad when you con…

I never got such an email, so I guess you are subscribed to their newsletter? Just unsubscribe if that's the case.

Regarding e-shop: I'd never let my hypothetical children have access to any kind of e-shop where you can purchase without me having to confirm. Parental controls FTW.

The alternative is to uncheck “save payment method for future purchases”.

Re: Mario Kart Tour Triggers You into Gambling Your Money

#170

Post by phreack »

surfsvammel wrote: post #153

What ever happened to just playing a game, without having to install deamon programs on your PC, without having to consent to them tracking you, without having to create fifteen new accounts, without having to endure in game ads, without having to constantly be reminded that I don’t have the special in game currency that is the only way to get that pink hat? Of course I understand what has happened. But it’s kind of…

Nowadays I've just taken a hard stance against all of this crap. Any game I see where the previews let you immediately understand there's going to be a bunch of these dark patterns to hide the fact they're just gambling aimed at kids, I don't ever look at again. Luckily, beyond mobile apps there's still a thriving market of Just Games, particularly indies, and they're better than ever.
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