Live data from Hacker News

Google's "free food" is not free

rachelbythebay.com

161–170 of 181 posts

Re: Google's "free food" is not free

#161

So I multiplied the $30/day by the 9,600 employees in Mountain View and New York by the 251 days Google is open every year. Remember that Google probably spends a lot more than this, because there are employees outside those offices, and because visitors are there all the time eating. The grand total: By our guesstimate, Larry and Sergey are spending at least $72,288,000 per year to fill their workers' pie-holes. How…

You seem to have just lifted your comment directly from this 2008 Business Insider article and changed "we" to "I." But you missed the "our" in the second paragraph.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2008-04-23/tech/30027421...

Re: Google's "free food" is not free

#162
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should read the article - the argument was that while yes, perks were offered as a reason to accept a smaller wage, they were then gradually eliminated without changing the wage.

Since when were they eliminated? Have you been to the Google campus? The free food is still there and it's still better than most cafeterias that you have to pay for.

Again - please read the article. This lady is writing about how free food was offered to her in exchange for a lower wage and was then gradually eliminated (which is different from completely eliminated). So yes, from what that lady writes, free food is still there, but less so than when she accepted it in exchange for a lower wage.

I never claimed to add any original research - just that the person I replied to hadn't read the article.

Re: Google's "free food" is not free

#163

I read a previous article by her about no one being able to like Apple products after Android and decided she has a totally warped view of reality. I was there when they handed out Android phones. I still use an iPhone. Many Google employees use iPhones. No one has ever given me crap about it, and I haven't seen anyone look at anyone funny in any way. I mean, Google gives MacBook Airs/MacBook Pros to every employee f…

This is a good point. I've also worked at huge behemoths before, and I wish there had been internal mailing lists to rant on. The bureaucratic walls around innovation and product release were so tall that a healthy release of those frustrations would have been nice. It's good to see that Google's employees have something to complain about, but more importantly that they actually complain about it.

There is a danger with internal lists and rants, they are subject to discovery on lawsuits afaik (IANAL), so things have a tendency to not stay internal over time. Google may not have been bitten by this yet, but I imagine it is only a matter of time.

Re: Google's "free food" is not free

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about that 10% raise the whole company got?

Amazing how often this one-time across-the-board salary raise is being trotted out in defense of other cuts elsewhere. What a great PR move that was. Besides, I would imagine that in a company doing as well as Google, annual raises of this amount were usual for the performers anyway.

Sounded like it was a raise on top of whatever else they got. I'd take that kind of raise for fewer perks. They could have just as easily not given it.

Re: Google's "free food" is not free

#165
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Link? I am interested in salary negotiation techniques. Thank you.

It won't be published until Monday (US time). Your options for finding it then include emailing me, getting the RSS feed at kalzumeus.com, following me on Twitter (@patio11), or (not a given but also not the riskiest prediction I'll make this year) checking the HN front page.

I particularly enjoyed the confidence embodied in that last one ;-)

Re: Google's "free food" is not free

#166
post #138

Pretty much spot on of course, anyone who was at Google 'before' can trace the dots to today. One of the benefits of a generous set of perks is that management can adjust the expense once they get close to the end of the quarter so that the 'numbers come out right.' Google is losing that ability. It makes things like their Q4 'miss' [1] more likely. It is of course entirely Google's prerogative on how they spend thei…

$115 per day per person? wtf I spend about 20 eur / day for food, I cant believe prices are sooo much higher in the valley.

I was unclear, I was trying to point out that the sort of perks rachelbythebay used in her article were inconsequential with respect to the free cash flow, even giving Google the benefit of the doubt in terms of its costs by a huge margin.

When I was there and digging into this issue from the inside one of the issues was that the cafe's predict and prepare a given amount of food and that needs to be just a bit more than is actually consumed so that they don't run out. The remainder is waste, so their cost per meal has to include the cost over head of the waste. Also the preparation staff has a salary and benefits, and there is the cost of the kitchen gear (things you and I don't expressly call out in our own costs because we are the cooks and its our kitchen). But it is always safe to use the retail prices of restaurants in the area because they are demonstrably getting by on that level of return for their meals.

One of the counter arguments an executive made to me was that you couldn't predict the quarter, and I suggested you run it 'behind' so that Q4's free cash determined Q1's level of perks, that way you spent the money you had previously banked. He did not believe there was an accounting system that could deal with that sort of setup. I suggested that Google had one or two smart people who could probably figure it out. But the resolution was 'that would be too much trouble.'

And I completely agree that its their choice on how to do it. But here is the rub, really really smart people in the bay area can work anywhere. Literally walk out on friday, and before they have used up half of their accrued vacation they can be working somewhere else. So screwing around with this sort of stuff when you could afford not to, pisses them off and they leave (see rachelbythebay's comment about 'brain drain'). The secondary effect is that one of the reasons people give for wanting to work at Google is "all the really smart people there." except that the 'really really smart' start leaving, followed by the 'really smart' who start dealing with only the 'moderately smart' because their ranks are leaving.

Its an interesting chain reaction. And of course eventually all that excess money stops coming in because the people who were really responsible for it being there in the first place are now gone, and that leaves you no choice but to cut perks even further. The system often re-stabilizes at a much much lower productivity point.

I got to watch the whole sequence at Sun in the 10 years I was there, a friend of mine watched it at Oracle. When I joined Google I was optimistic that given that Eric Schmidt had been at Sun too that he also understood the dynamic that made technology companies great, vs just ok. I was mistaken.

The process is probably irreversible at this point. Google will coast on its reputation for a while, but folks inside will feel the pain of the 'missing ones', and things that used to just 'get done' will become big projects which take too long and too many people and are always behind schedule. They will keep lowering their hiring standards as the need to back fill positions of people leaving overwhelms their ability to get anything done. The ranks will swell with earnest folks who really want to do well but the ratio of smart people to earnest (but not smart) people will fall and so effort will increase without an increase in output. Revenue per employee will start to drop, and the days when 20,000 employees to get you $2B in free cash flow will be replaced by 50,000 employees and less than a billion.

I wish it were different, but sadly I don't see an out for them.

Re: Google's "free food" is not free

#167
post #50
post #46

Google is located in an area where there aren't many restaurants close by. By offering on-site lunches, they keep the employees on campus. So instead of wasting, say, 1.5 hours getting to MtView, hunting for parking, waiting at a restaurant, eating, getting back into your car, etc., the employees just walk over to the cafe, still in work mode; or even better, take the lunch back to their offices. Even if Google gets…

Right, the company I worked for was open about this, they wanted us at our desks. The problem was they had no way of measuring how much productivity gains there really were but they still had a bill every month for the food. When push comes to shove it was harder to justify any theoretical productivity gains against that bill.

They can "want you at your desk".

In most of the US, you're entitled, by law, to a lunch break of at least 30 minutes.

You can thank unions for that.

Re: Google's "free food" is not free

#168
Kind of a first-world problem.

A lot is made of a company 'culture', and frequently perks are pointed out. Well, sorry, culture is what is left when the chips are down, the perks are gone, and its time to work your way out of the hole.

At Google, as the article said, when perks dried up folks left. Those folks were never part of their culture, they were what's known as freeloaders.

So why not be a freeloader? I don't know, I just feel kind of sticky when I find myself in that position. I would much rather be part of a small company, doing whatever it takes to be successful because its MY company.

Re: Google's "free food" is not free

#169
It's an advertised perk so sure. Just like they might convince you to work somewhere because it's more geographically convenient for you or it has a day care. It offers better quality of life in lieu of cash money. I know cash is what most americans want. They want it over better health care or fairer lifestyle. But some people just want to live more comfortably instead of being able to tell people how many "figures" they make.

As for the cuts, maybe they decided to be more "honest" and cut that program and just give new hires more money?

Re: Google's "free food" is not free

#170

I was at Google's campus last month for lunch. The food is better quality than a Las Vegas buffet with all the trimmings, except it's all free. The author complaining about Google being "evil" for cutting back or "screwing the employee" is so incredibly ridiculous and so self-entitled it sickens me. It's like someone complaining that the company used to drop free $100 bills on the ground, but now they're only droppin…

Fair enough, but what if said company convinced you to take a lower salary because the company was always dropping $100 bills? Cutting back there would effectively be a salary cut, and you would have a right to be upset. I think the real issue is that the author's recruiter was unscrupulous and willing to take advantage of someone who wasn't skilled at the whole negotiating thing.

> willing to take advantage of someone who wasn't skilled at the whole negotiating thing.

What? That is the ENTIRE POINT of negotiation. It's a game. The more skilled player wins, and it's true for job offers, house buying, car buying, street markets, everything.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. :)

Post reply on HN