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Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

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Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#161

Post by BobbyJo »

komali2 wrote: post #136
BobbyJo wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's far easier to optimize for profit then theoretical ideals. The issue here isn't that they are optimizing for profit, the issue is that incentives have put that pursuit at odds with the university's core mission (education/community), as opposed to keeping it aligned with it. Pursuit of profit should keep you accountable for the services you provide, not detract from them.

So it's easier to optimize for profit, so what? How can your core mission be education but "you're optimizing for profit?" Either your core mission is education or it isn't. I feel like this is the kind of goal setting miss I see businesses make all the time. They'll be doing be doing some version of the ubiquitous value setting activity, and as ideas are pitched someone will be like "wait, isn't our most basic value…

> Basically I think it's wrong to try to go cross eyed having "persuit of profit" always there while also trying to set some other "idealistic" goal. Just stay focused!

It's a purely practical constraint. I too would love if organizations were capable of functioning in some other capacity, but in your own words:

> someone will be like "wait, isn't our most basic value to just make money?"

And also according to you:

> Sure

So, the best way to get businesses to act in the interest of others is to tie their profit to those other interests, which is the basic principle of the free market. Want resources? Do something for others such that they voluntarily give theirs to you, I.E. do something of value for your customers.

Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#162

Post by BobbyJo »

riversflow wrote: post #157
WalterBright wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The beauty of the free market is that the way to maximize profit is to maximize customer satisfaction.

Invoking the free market in a discussion about a market as distorted as higher education is laughable. No, the way to maximize profits is to get government(s) to ensure that you are in a favorable position to earn profits. In this case, demanding that most well paying jobs necessitate tertiary education and providing free credit.

Maybe the point is pointing out how distorted the market is, and maybe the distortion is the issue.

Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#163

Post by bruceb »

komali2 wrote: post #141
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? The university is trying to teach a lesson by inflicting pain on those who stood against it. I thought that was clear. Do you maybe mean "what makes them think that this is legal?" I doubt they do. But they likely decided that value of sending a "don't fuck with us" message was higher than the cost of the likely mild consequences.

> on those who stood against it Then, the university has already lost. Systemically its convinced itself that some of the core providers of its value are its enemy in some way, rather than a cooperative part of its being. It's always been clear cut to me, the relationship between workers and owners: one tries to get the most work for the least money, and the other, the most money for the least work. What's surprising…

>That's really how it wants its relationship with its junior faculty to be?

How many people apply for each position? For many areas (not CS) its a buyers market not a sellers one in terms of faculty labor.

Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#164

Post by BobbyJo »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #160
WalterBright wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The beauty of the free market is that the way to maximize profit is to maximize customer satisfaction.

Let us bring forth this beauty by removing taxpayer funded loans for higher education.

Or, make said funded loans being paid off contingent, to some degree, on student success?

The gov-funded loans were created to solve a problem as well.

Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#165

Post by eli_gottlieb »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #100
sonofhans wrote: post #45

> “Any Temple employee that decides to strike forfeits their pay and complete benefits package,” explained Temple University senior vice president and chief operating officer Ken Kaiser. Here's the problem -- that's a business solution. This decision is intended to benefit Temple the business, not the Temple the university. The administration is too busy filing TPS reports to realize that they're curating something a…

>"This decision is intended to benefit Temple the business, not the Temple the university." More and more it seems like academics are just a front for running a hedge fund - one that gets very favorite tax treatment. Growing the endowment is the most important thing in the minds of the leadership.

I agree with the argument that this is being done by administrators, not academics, but there's a simple solution: tax endowments of private universities and use the money for state schools, trade schools, and community colleges.

Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#166

Post by speakfreely »

pxc wrote: post #111
munk-a wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are reports from strikers trying to refill medication that the medical benefit suspension has already unilaterally gone into effect. The university has gone ahead with their threats in that regard (which is especially shitty since it's pretty standard in the US to give employees a health insurance grace period on termination). I am really confused about what the university thinks they're going to get out of the…

[flagged]

I really wish people would stop trying to redefine the word "violence" to mean anything they don't like. In almost every instance it's a strong signal that you're dealing with an emotional person who is incapable of having a rational conversation.

Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#167

Post by lotsofpulp »

BobbyJo wrote: post #164
lotsofpulp wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let us bring forth this beauty by removing taxpayer funded loans for higher education.

Or, make said funded loans being paid off contingent, to some degree, on student success? The gov-funded loans were created to solve a problem as well.

The only problem they were created to solve was soaking future taxpayers with debt and a devalued currency, while keeping taxes low in the past and present.

The government should either fund higher education directly, or give students cash.

This is the same playbook with deferred compensation like defined benefit pensions and retiree healthcare for government employees. Government avoids paying cash now so taxes are lower now, and use liberal accounting assumptions to understate the debt.

Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#168

Post by tedunangst »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #165
BitwiseFool wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"This decision is intended to benefit Temple the business, not the Temple the university." More and more it seems like academics are just a front for running a hedge fund - one that gets very favorite tax treatment. Growing the endowment is the most important thing in the minds of the leadership.

I agree with the argument that this is being done by administrators, not academics, but there's a simple solution: tax endowments of private universities and use the money for state schools, trade schools, and community colleges.

Temple is a state school. (Okay, I think I should clarify it's kinda complicated, it's not technically a state college, but it's a peer of penn state in the weird PA hybrid scheme. So if you thought Penn state was public, Temple is equivalently so.)

Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#170

Post by eli_gottlieb »

tedunangst wrote: post #168
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the argument that this is being done by administrators, not academics, but there's a simple solution: tax endowments of private universities and use the money for state schools, trade schools, and community colleges.

Temple is a state school. (Okay, I think I should clarify it's kinda complicated, it's not technically a state college, but it's a peer of penn state in the weird PA hybrid scheme. So if you thought Penn state was public, Temple is equivalently so.)

Well shit, and the state doesn't actually own the endowment? That's ridiculous. Take those assets into state ownership.
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