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Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

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Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#161

Post by zirgs »

bmj wrote: post #15
magic_hamster wrote: post #10

I think there never was stronger counterculture than today - but the platforms for this changed. A few decades ago an avant-garde film or student project could make ripples in the film industry and gain a cult following. However, I think that anyone under 20 (possibly under 30) sees cinema as far less important than the previous generation. YouTube (and TikTok) stars became bigger than movie stars, and more young peo…

I think there never was stronger counterculture than today I disagree. Can you expand on your claim? YouTube and TikTok are not countercultural, even if some users are using those platforms for genuine countercultural creative acts. By definition, a social media "influencer" with millions of followers is not countercultural.

A social media influencer with millions of followers can still be unknown to people outside of that bubble.

My mom has no idea who PewDiePie is.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#162

Post by nemo44x »

neonnoodle wrote: post #71

The medium is the message dudes. At this point in history, what will qualify a true counterculture is NOT BEING ONLINE. Whatever the true counterculture will be, it won’t be subject to the Internet and its all-seeing eye. It won’t be made out of memes and flame wars. No matter what the political bent, we’re all very much a captive audience online. “Master’s house/master’s tools” and all that.

People should read “Gravity's Rainbow” - or at least an analysis of it. A major point/theme is that no matter what you do, if it’s useful/profitable/empowering/etc then it will be co-opted by “the man” or whatever. There’s a never ending graveyard of counter culture artifacts that existed to spit on the mainstream that were nearly merged in, packaged, and sold back to the hordes of consumers that think they’re outside of it all. It’s hard to listen to Rage Against the Machine without laughing.

In essence, the message in the book is the only way to win is to not play. To live as far under the radar as possible. To just not participate. That you won’t change it because it will just co-opt you making it bigger and a more dangerous war machine where you’re a complicit participant.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#163

Post by pibechorro »

rcarr wrote: post #59
adamcharnock wrote: post #20

I'm pretty sure I've been existing in a number of counter-cultures for the last decade or two. These have been either linked to my identity or physical location, I couldn't have properly experienced them through consuming media on the subject. Certainly all required an active choice and/or lifestyle change on my part. Maybe people mean something else by counter-culture, but here are examples from my life: - Freelanci…

I agree with this, I had a friend who lived in a caravan in a forest in the north of England with a bunch of hippies. They'd throw parties now and again and there were tons of them. There are loads of people doing van life for various reasons or something similar like bike packing or living on a homestead. These people are counter culture but you won't hear about them because most of them aren't hustling to become so…

Yup, people living it dont brag about it, gotta keep the poser johnny come lately herds away from ruining it. I have been living and crusing on a sailboat, mosty off anchor rent free when I can, surrounded by many other sailors who rather not see it ruined by Instagram.

The key here is the counter culture starts and ends in your heart. Get out and break out of the matrix.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#164

Post by seydor »

shanebellone wrote: post #135
neonnoodle wrote: post #71

The medium is the message dudes. At this point in history, what will qualify a true counterculture is NOT BEING ONLINE. Whatever the true counterculture will be, it won’t be subject to the Internet and its all-seeing eye. It won’t be made out of memes and flame wars. No matter what the political bent, we’re all very much a captive audience online. “Master’s house/master’s tools” and all that.

"medium is the message" That brought back grad school memories. The Internet is an excellent example of this. We're watching -- in real-time -- the medium challenge society (at all levels and across boundaries). The Internet is still an infant; yet look at its impact.

Really? The internet looks old. A teenager in the 90s, aged fast in the 2000s, got a family in 2010s and now is seeking to police everyone through its retirement.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#165

Post by thebooktocome »

n0tth3dro1ds wrote: post #104
barneygale wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BLM > Endlessly supported Black people are still being murdered by police every day in America.

[flagged]

Read your own citation. That conclusion did not reach the level of statistical significance. The authors admit it studied a single precinct that self-reported data. They had no way to corroborate or verify the accuracy of the data they were given.

“In essence, this is equivalent to analyzing labor market discrimination on a set of firms willing to supply a researcher with their Human Resources data!”

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#166

Post by cheschire »

neonnoodle wrote: post #71

The medium is the message dudes. At this point in history, what will qualify a true counterculture is NOT BEING ONLINE. Whatever the true counterculture will be, it won’t be subject to the Internet and its all-seeing eye. It won’t be made out of memes and flame wars. No matter what the political bent, we’re all very much a captive audience online. “Master’s house/master’s tools” and all that.

Another commenter mentioned off grid living. It reminded me of the bohemian communes of the 60's and I wondered if technology is destroying this concept as well by making it so easy for suburban chads to feel "off grid" with solar power and three-fuel generators and even cars now that don't require regular visits to a gas station. Easy to overlook how they're still using city water, sewage, trash collection, and shop for even basic things at stores though.

I think you may be right. Counter culture today may simply be being offline.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#167

Post by gbN025tt2Z1E2E4 »

hutzlibu wrote: post #157
gbN025tt2Z1E2E4 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are values which promote the functioning of a healthy and balanced society with people less inclined and/or enthusiastically supported for being inherently self-centered and self-destructive. Endless drug epidemics are a very prominent and visual symptom of the damage rampant degeneracy has inflicted upon society and that in general, things as they are currently are NOT alright.

So do you believe gay people for example, are a threat to a healthy and balanced society? edit: Oh and conservative culture in my land means mostly lots of alcohol. The first time I vomitted from alcohol was as a teenager on a catholic wine fest, by wine gifted to us from the church. There might be conservatives, that are free from drugs, but mostly they just like other drugs. Drugs are a big problem in todays societ…

Well, it's a simple equation from a societal health perspective.

As things are currently, society is well below the minimum and ideal birth replacement rates (scarily low in fact). So from that perspective, promotion of homosexuality runs directly counter to what is best for society as a whole versus what is currently seen as best for any one individual.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#168

Post by satao »

GalenErso wrote: post #132
satao wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conservatism and traditional values can't be counter-culture since our society is based on them. It will never be counter-anything except progress.

[flagged]

Society didn't use to be "conservative". Like, the romans and the greeks were a lot more sexually free than we are right now. What they also had in their time is conservative people, as in, people that were against the changes in the society they were living in (like accepting Christianism during the Roman Empire, etc).

Being conservative can't be counter-culture because by definition it is preseving the CURRENT culture (which is not the "woke" one, even if boomers like to think different. All the people with power are conservatives). Being downvoted in HN doesn't mean anything, same as Twitter and Reddit. You can be "cancelled" in Twitter and still sell out the Madison Square Garden, like Louis CK. The real power is outside the social media, and that part is definitely conservative.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#169

Post by ArnoVW »

ianai wrote: post #49
ArnoVW wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding of counterculture is that it 'counters'. I.e. it inherently searches to change or influence the dominant culture. Your examples do show that we are (thankfully) not a monoculture. But they place themselves outside of our culture, instead trying to influence. A good example of counter culture is BLM, Extinction Rebellion or Occupy Wallstreet. Only thing: those are movements, not cultures. And they are…

google: coun·ter·cul·ture /ˈkoun(t)ərˌkəlCHər/ Learn to pronounce noun noun: counterculture; plural noun: countercultures; noun: counter-culture; plural noun: counter-cultures a way of life and set of attitudes opposed to or at variance with the prevailing social norm. "the idealists of the 60s counterculture"

Being not native, I googled before I posted. In the first page I saw some phrases that seemed to confirm for me. For example, Wikipedia, citing a book from 1991:

Counterculture may or may not be explicitly political. It typically involves criticism or rejection of currently powerful institutions, with accompanying hope for a better life or a new society.

But if I'm completely besides the mark, apologies

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#170

Post by xyzelement »

isthisthingon99 wrote: post #33
anovikov wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo! As soon as you get to define counterculture as something else but "a kind of bullshit you read on the Internet which is different from what normies read", you realise that there is plenty of it.

LGBTQ stuff is pretty mainstream now, in the sense that it is an omnipresent "other" though 20 years ago, it definitely wasn't. I'd say today's counter culture is people eschewing corporate life, sort of like it was before corporate culture took over.

I think that's mainstream as well. People talk about digital nomadism x going off grid whatever all the time.

The real counterculture is showing up to work and feeding your kids

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