Translating the Bible is a vexed task • Hacker News Board

Re: Translating the Bible is a vexed task

#161

Post by sombragris » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 8:34 AM UTC

Luker88 wrote: post #57

Where do I find a literal translation of the bible? I would like one that does not force a meaning on words that are not known. I think have read enough fiction with made up words to be able to understand something anyway. Also, maybe not based on Latin? Latin was not the original language anyway, and I got fed up with the mistranslations that we keep repeating as correct. I gave up after searching and learning the h…

The most literal English translation that is yet still readable English is the New American Standard Bible. ESV is very good, too, but at some times is more "literary" than literal.

If you want more literal, you might try the American Standard Version, which never gained much traction but it's a good formal, if older, translation.

Re: Translating the Bible is a vexed task

#162

Post by bandie91 » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:05 AM UTC

arp242 wrote: post #11

MonkeyClub wrote: post #4

“Traduttore, traditore” (“translator, you traitor!”). Translating ancient texts is hard enough given the complex historical and cultural contexts. When it comes to religious texts, though, the level of complexity grows exponentially, especially given how their contexts widen. On an unrelated note, this always vexes me: > By contrast, the two faiths’ cousin—Christianity I get how one can see a relation between Judaism…

Islam is generally considered an Abrahamic religion. There is a lot of continuity; the (very very) short version of the Islam perspective is "Abraham explained God's will to us, then Jesus was sent by God to explain God's will better, and then finally God sent Mohammed and he communicated God's will perfectly". Three time's the charm I guess? Many of the figures you know from the Bible make their appearance in the Qu…

then Joseph Smith's religion is also Abrahamic.

Re: Translating the Bible is a vexed task

#163

Post by bandie91 » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:22 AM UTC

mbfg wrote: post #100

Odd that an all powerful god would choose text written in dying languages, easily susceptible to being lost or destroyed, as the preferred method of communication.

exactly. because it is not the writing which is the primary means of communication. they only suppose it since the invention of sola scriptura. churches with apostolic origin always claimed it's the personal communion and handing-on the faith among the faithful with the assured support from the Holy Spirit is the way.

Re: Translating the Bible is a vexed task

#164

Post by verbify » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:30 AM UTC

llimos wrote: post #147

verbify wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Christian churches face the East I should have been more specific, it's about praying to a specific place. Jews face the western wall in Jerusalem, Muslims face Mecca. And they do this in or out of the synagogue (or mosque as far as I know). I've seen people get out a compass! > Christian clerics and devout laypersons pray the Liturgy of the Hours daily. This might be more analogous, but the "devout laypeople" seem…

> Jews face the western wall in Jerusalem Close, but a few metres out - we face the place where the Holy of Holies was, on the Temple Mount.

Heh, I considered writing that, but decided against it because I figured the western wall would be more familiar to the audience on HN even if it's a few metres out.

Re: Translating the Bible is a vexed task

#165

Post by bandie91 » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:38 AM UTC

shakna wrote: post #54

Mikeb85 wrote: post #44

Americans have a weird fixation on translating the Bible. No religion apart from Protestants attempt to interpret holy texts without supporting ancient commentsry. Jews have the Talmud and other commentaries, Muslims have hadiths, Orthodox and Catholic Christians have centuries of commentaries by saints, similarly Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism and others all have many supporting texts, not just a single canonical one. Y…

Protestants are absolutely trained to make use of commentaries. Its one of the bare fundamentals of exegesis, which is taught in first year in basically every Bible college. Its nonsensical to say that they ignore the masses of study on these documents.

yes they trained to use, however i never heared a preacher appealed to a commentary source, only to the bible itself. strange. they usually answer any question with 1 bible verse, no more.

Re: Translating the Bible is a vexed task

#166

Post by bandie91 » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:40 AM UTC

TheFreim wrote: post #149

bitbang wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no such thing as Protestant when the canon was formalized, and the reformation had nothing to do with canon.

> the reformation had nothing to do with canon Canonical issues were debated during the "reformation", including canonicity of certain New Testament works (there are famous Luther quotes that often get brought out).

he must meant that they have not changed the NT canon at the end.

Re: Translating the Bible is a vexed task

#167

Post by ajanuary » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 9:53 AM UTC

Amezarak wrote: post #25

fjfaase wrote: post #10

Rather superficial article about the subject. Whole books are written about the subject or why one translation is better than another. (A quick search will find you people telling you not to use the King James translation.) The article does not even touch upon culture things, such like how to deal with a translation for a culture where pigs are kept as pets or cattle, while in the old testament they are considered as…

> (A quick search will find you people telling you not to use the King James translation.) Most of them are bad reasons - for example, one very popular criticism is the claim that KJV invented the usage of the word "unicorn" in the Bible, and it's actually a wild ox. But it was traditionally translated that way from the time of the Latin Vulgate, and nobody knows for sure what a re'em is. [Ed - it turns out the Septu…

I found Dan McCellans video [1] to be informative. Two of the biggest problems I took away from that video are:

1) KJV is based on later revisions of the text. Newer works are based on newer discoveries of older versions of the text, and so are closer to the original source text.

2) The differences with modern English usage can lead to very different readings from what the authors of KJV meant. A good example is given at about 19 minutes into the video.

[1] https://youtu.be/RRn-De2I6II

Re: Translating the Bible is a vexed task

#168

Post by krapp » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 11:26 AM UTC

bazoom42 wrote: post #159

krapp wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's interesting about that is it's obviously only referring to the book of Revelations itself, since "The Bible" as such didn't even exist at the time, if it isn't a late addition. Yet Christians apply it to scripture as a whole. Also, IIRC, Revelations almost didn't even make it into the Biblical canon, like a lot of other apocryphal books it was considered too crazy for the mainstream.

The Bible did exist, just not the section called the new testament.

"The Bible" is a Christian invention. What existed was the Torah and other Hebrew texts, whose incorporation into Christian canon is based on retroactive continuity, and has never been recognized as valid within Judaism.

Re: Translating the Bible is a vexed task

#169

Post by bazoom42 » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 1:22 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #168

bazoom42 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bible did exist, just not the section called the new testament.

"The Bible" is a Christian invention. What existed was the Torah and other Hebrew texts, whose incorporation into Christian canon is based on retroactive continuity, and has never been recognized as valid within Judaism.

AFAIK Bible is from Greek and was used by Greek speaking Jews to refer to their sacred books.

Re: Translating the Bible is a vexed task

#170

Post by TheFreim » Mon, Jan 23, 2023, 2:07 PM UTC

sombragris wrote: post #160

TheFreim wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bibliotheca looks like possibly a modern version of this, I recently ordered a copy so I'll know when it ships late 2023. https://www.bibliotheca.co/

I like the ESV and Crossway publishes a Reader's Edition exactly like this: https://www.crossway.org/bibles/esv-readers-bible-cob/

That does look amazing, thank you for the link. Unfortunately for me it doesn't contain the deuterocanonical books ("apocrypha") which for me are important to have.