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Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

nco.ncep.noaa.gov

161–170 of 236 posts

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed?

You need me to Google Medicare budget and defense budget for you? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States) >In 2020, US federal government spending on Medicare was $776.2 billion.[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_De... >Annual budget US$721.5 billion (FY2020)[2] Hopefully, I won't need a citation that $776 > $721

This does not back up the original claim in the slightest which was obviously a grotesque exaggeration. Please refrain from hyperbole and sarcasm - it damages the quality of the conversation.

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#162
METARs are perpetually down. one funny thing about them, they are deemed to be a critical service which requires something like 99.99% uptime to be in compliance with the FAA regulations governing service delivery. to get around this, a METAR is considered up as long as it has power, regardless as to whether it itsproducing data or providing accurate readings.

the technology was certified and frozen in the 90s. many of these devices are running windows 3.1 for networking!

they cost more than 2 million dollars a piece to install (at least around here) and require 4 trips per year to calibrate.

since there was little incentive and herculean constraints for the team in charge of METARs to improve the situation, another team at the FAA decided to create their own non certified version. to be installed in places that can't afford a METAR. They were able to build a better system using the same hardware but updated software for a hardware cost of $80k, 250k installed. this system only needs calibration once every 2 years. so it represents about a 1/10 cost of install and 1/8 cost of maintenance.

naturally this pissed off some people. I'm not going to get into internal politics beyond saying the project is currently frozen until a number of large efforts imposed on the program are completed. I believe it will still eventually come out because the cat is out of the bag and there are many groups desperate for a better alternative.

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#163

METARs are perpetually down. one funny thing about them, they are deemed to be a critical service which requires something like 99.99% uptime to be in compliance with the FAA regulations governing service delivery. to get around this, a METAR is considered up as long as it has power, regardless as to whether it itsproducing data or providing accurate readings. the technology was certified and frozen in the 90s. many…

This is really crazy to read about, and I am thankful you posted this.

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are. I've even seen small aircraft pilots call the automated weather line from the cockpit while they're preparing to approach the destination airport.

That automated weather frequency relies on METAR data from the Aviation Weather Service here in the US, and that's where ATC gets their information from as well when they're advising pilots of surface winds when giving landing clearance. Per the source, 167 airport weather stations are not reporting correctly (either due to a highly unlikely concurrent fault with the stations, or more likely an issue with the system…

You have it backwards, ATIS doesn't pull from METARs... the METAR and ATIS recording are both produced at the same time locally by the local weather observer (usually a controller in the tower), reading raw data directly from the on-field weather station and making manual edits as necessary. The two should match up exactly, but that's because they're both produced by the same process.

If the tower is closed, or it's an untowered field, the system can run in automatic mode. In that case the radio broadcast gets updated every minute, much more frequently than METARs get updated (every hour).

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#166

Just gotta ask: Southwest, NOTAM, and now this… Is some group pen-testing?

It's weird that americans always seem to have this sort of siege mentality. We already know the causes of the other outages, and they have nothing to do with the foreign interference boogeyman.

Part of it is this intellectual one-upsmanship, especially at places like HN. People think they look smarter if they reflexively reject "the narrative".

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#167

METARs are perpetually down. one funny thing about them, they are deemed to be a critical service which requires something like 99.99% uptime to be in compliance with the FAA regulations governing service delivery. to get around this, a METAR is considered up as long as it has power, regardless as to whether it itsproducing data or providing accurate readings. the technology was certified and frozen in the 90s. many…

I'm very interested in this after reading your account, but couldn't find additional information online. Do you have sources we could look at?

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#168

Unlike the NOTAM outage, a METAR outage will and should actually affect flights. Without weather at your destination it becomes impossible to know if it’s safe to land there. The forecasts (TAF) are actually used more in flight planning, but actual weather is very valuable while enroute, when not close enough to hear weather over the radio from the destination airport.

A pilot can legally land without a METAR, and this happens all the time. The stations can and do go offline. Sometimes they break, especially after a severe storm. Many smaller airfields don't have on-site weather reporting, some others don't have a network connection.

You look at the closest available weather station and you look at the forecasts — human-authored (TAFs) and computer-autored (GFA/MOS). And when you arrive, you look outside at the actual conditions — the windsock, actual flight visibility, etc. If the conditions are worse than expected, you divert to your alternate.

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#169
post #153
post #136

The outage seems to be in receiving reports from weather stations (primarily airports). When arriving at an airport, a pilot is required to confirm they have the latest METAR information for the site. It's presumed negligence when pilots don't know the weather. This is because weather is the #1 environmental factor in accidents. But the actual use of weather in flying (esp. for commercial flights) is not via METAR bu…

You say radar, but I think what you might mean is ads-b[0]. This is the system where weather info (among other information) is transmitted from a network of ground stations. [0]: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/adsb/pilot

For what it's worth, there are also actually on-board radar systems in some aircraft

Re: Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage

#170
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say radar, but I think what you might mean is ads-b[0]. This is the system where weather info (among other information) is transmitted from a network of ground stations. [0]: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/adsb/pilot

For what it's worth, there are also actually on-board radar systems in some aircraft

Yes there are but they don’t give you enough information to decide whether you can land at an airport.

ADS-B gives you METAR, for instance.

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