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Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

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Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#161

I work at a pretty large corporation that uses docker desktop. The engineering team is in the low hundreds spread across the world. We happily pay for what we use and it's all great. We don't really use many features of docker desktop though. We have our own image space (ecr) and I don't think anyone is using or relying on extensions. I'm sure some team will eventually socialize an alternative. The reason we went thr…

Do you/your corporation use Docker Compose?

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#162
I'm skeptic how long this will last unless they bring out some cutting-edge innovations. I frankly used and loved Docker Desktop for a long time because it was the easiest way to get going and I believe even k8s is included now which is great for hobbyists and those who just want to get things done. But, I've been annoyed by the UX changes and the push to login to docker hub.

While in 2023, there are most certainly great alternatives that are relatively easy to install from the terminal and get going, I guess there's not yet a definitive replacement that comes with the GUI too. Best I can think of is Podman Desktop Companion[1] but not sure how well this works.

[1]: https://iongion.github.io/podman-desktop-companion/

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#163
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WinRAR?

I still don't know how that dude makes money. People use my software multiple times a day, so the nag is quite annoying. I need WinRar once in a few months, maybe.

I stopped pretty much since 7zip been a thing

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#164
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the initial negative take on the license change was correct, and this is the dying gasp of the company. It's just taking longer than expected to replace Docker Desktop. But I am seeing a lot of progress on Podman and Rancher and a few others, and some of the larger tech companies are also building in-house replacements. A lot of the people who had to scramble to find a replacement are not happy about it. In…

What gets me about this is the math doesn't make any sense. Docker charges $10/developer/month. Those developers are paid $150k+/yr, fully loaded to the company (insurance, taxes, accounting, etc) is probably double that, but call it $250k/yr to be nice. You take 3 developers and have them spend a quarter on replacing Docker Desktop, that's nearly $200k in developer costs spent replacing a tool that's gonna cost your…

> that's nearly $200k in developer costs spent replacing a tool that's gonna cost your 250 person company $30k/year.

the 250 person companies are not building the replacement, the 2k+ ones will. And likely ones that fit their internal architecture better so there are productivity gains to be had on top of that

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#165
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a product that has zero reduction in functionality if your license or trial runs out, just constantly nags you when you do useful things with it. Eventually, the workers at the company insist on the company buying it. Sometimes takes 6 months hah.

WinRAR?

Corporate.

Though if my memory servers me right one time I bought it for a staff of the site which has.. quite dubious legal position by hosting the abandonware. Of course it was technically a breach of contract because there were multiple people who could use it, it was still one legal license more.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HashiCorp Nomad is a nice alternative is something you can look into if you're looking for a lightweight Kubernetes replacement. Also, it doesn't support everything Kubernetes does, it should be enough for most use cases.

Thanks, been thinking about it. It looks really nice, but it’s really hard to beat how easily you can go from compose in local development to swarm on prod in small team.

OTOH, you can go from Nomad in local development to Nomad in production pretty easily, too.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#167
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I'll do the math: $250k/yr/developer, so for 1 quarter, that's $62.5k, 3 developers for one quarter is $187.5k. Docker costs $10/mo, or $120/yr, so for 1000 developers, that's $120k/yr, or a payoff time of 1.5 years, assuming nobody ever has to touch anything ever again. Let's say our solution requires 1 developer-quarter per year to maintain - bugfixes, upgrades, deployments, etc. That's $62.5k/yr. That pushes o…

A big mistake with this math is that globally developers are not paid anywhere close to 250k/yr even fully loaded for the company. In my country in Europe it's closer to 60k/yr fully loaded. There is cheaper. Also most companies aren't gonna build something from scratch, they are going to use something else that is also available. That being said this type of exercise is good to show because many managers do not do i…

[deleted]

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#168
post #130
post #8

I remember everyone had written Docker off for dead when they announced their updated pricing plans, but they really made perfect sense, and I am happy to see the company recover. A large chunk of the tech world today relies on their products, but they were making next to nothing for it. It is definitely worth it for large companies to throw a few dollars their way considering the massive amount of value they are get…

I suspect the initial negative take on the license change was correct, and this is the dying gasp of the company. It's just taking longer than expected to replace Docker Desktop. But I am seeing a lot of progress on Podman and Rancher and a few others, and some of the larger tech companies are also building in-house replacements. A lot of the people who had to scramble to find a replacement are not happy about it. In…

Large companies took a while to figure out their replacement options, pick one, validate tooling, etc. They paid up early but they aren't paying again. Rancher on mac is basically a drop in replacement. With WSL on windows, docker desktop was, I assume, already unnecessary. The linux users were probably running docker engine this whole time anyway.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#169
The second there's a CLI-only 100% compatible Docker Desktop replacement for macOS I'll use it. Docker Desktop on macOS is insanely slow and there's 0 reason it should be a GUI app that lives in my menubar, it's just ridiculous.

So far all the alternatives are "mostly" compatible with caveats here and there.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#170

Looks like there's a lot of discussion about Docker Desktop alternatives here, so shameless plug: I've been working on a new Linux+Docker+Kubernetes solution for macOS recently! Already has quite a few improvements over existing apps including Docker Desktop, Rancher, Colima, etc: - Fast networking: 30 Gbps! vs. 150 Mbps with Docker VPNKit. Full VPN compatibility, IPv6, ping, ICMP and UDP traceroute, and half-open TC…

How do you achieve 30Gbps?

Great question! I wrote a new userspace network proxy/stack in Go, similar to Docker's VPNKit and built it with performance in mind at all levels.

What makes it fast is support for modern NIC features that improve performance significantly, similar to those supported by Apple's in-kernel NAT (vmnet) but implemented in userspace. I've made changes to the guest kernel to implement these while working around limitations in Apple's Virtualization.framework. I'm not actually sure why it's slightly faster than vmnet in the host-to-guest direction (30 vs. 25 Gbps), but I'll take it.

Some snapshots of my journey working on the network stack:

https://twitter.com/kdrag0n/status/1606461436863352832

https://twitter.com/kdrag0n/status/1604288427306160128

https://twitter.com/kdrag0n/status/1607236475715989506

https://twitter.com/kdrag0n/status/1609013653214474240

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