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Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

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Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#161

Post by e_i_pi_2 »

quotemstr wrote: post #80
jdiez17 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This decision, as I understand it, renders large swathes of tech service revenue models untenable. To be honest, good riddance. If it is no longer possible to offer users a "free" service in exchange for extremely invasive spying and psychological manipulation (without explicit consent [0]), it forces companies to 1) innovate in order to offer such services for a sustainable price, and 2) encourages competition fro…

> To be honest, good riddance. If it is no longer possible to offer users a "free" service in exchange for extremely invasive spying and psychological manipulation Is it right that a tiny but loud minority be able to ban these ad-supported services for all of society? Going by revealed preferences, most people don't consider targeting advertising to be "spying and psychological manipulation". If they did, usage patte…

> Going by revealed preferences, most people don't consider targeting advertising to be "spying and psychological manipulation". If they did, usage patters would differ.

By this logic most people don't actually believe cigarettes are harmful, if they did then usage patterns would differ

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#162

Post by WithinReason »

j_san wrote: post #125
samwillis wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would not be valid under GDPR, they would still need to have a tracking opt in for the "free" version. There are no loopholes to this.

I don't think this is true, many news sites either offer the option to accept cookies and show ads or offer a subscription without ads and tracking cookies. This has been ruled as being valid by courts.

Sure but the free version doesn't have mandatory tracking, that's the point. Paid, ad free Facebook is orthogonal to this.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#164

Post by perlgeek »

Nextgrid wrote: post #7
samwillis wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Them "leaving", as in having no legal/corporate presence in, the EU wouldn't remove obligations under GDPR. They would have to block all access from EU citizens to do that.

In practice they will get away with it because good luck enforcing those penalties on a company without any assets you can reach.

There are at least two enforcement mechanisms:

* Governments can reach Apple and Google, and thus force them to remove the apps from their app stores.

* Diplomacy. EU and USA will have a lot of negotiation to do pretty soon. USA doesn't like how EU handles big tech and privacy. EU doesn't like how USA's preferred treatment of domestic electric cars in the "inflation reduction" act that went into effect a few days ago. If Meta pulls out of EU to dodge enforcement, the EU diplomats will surely bring that up, and work a solution into whatever treaty comes out of this.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#165

Post by [deleted] »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #122
crazygringo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why do you think legislation should be the one forcing that choice on everyone, rather than the market allowing consumers to choose? The issue isn't what we personally like or prefer for ourselves -- it's more about when we think it's legitimate to take away the right of businesses to experiment with business models, and of consumers to be free to enter into the tradeoffs they prefer. Why shouldn't a consumer be…

> But why do you think legislation should be the one forcing that choice on everyone, rather than the market allowing consumers to choose? Meta is still allowed to do this, so consumers still get a choice. Meta is just now forced to ask consumers for their explicit consent.

[deleted]

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#166

Post by andsoitis »

Nextgrid wrote: post #54
whimsicalism wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the standard becomes "make illegal business models that the media gets enough people upset about" (without even a vote where the alternatives [paying for service] are clearly explained), then -yeah- people are going to be left poorer. Europe already endured centuries of this when the majority Christian ethos was that usury & banking were an evil to be banned. This, among other things of course, helped sentence mil…

> This, among other things of course, helped sentence millions of people to poor and deprived lives for centuries. Wealth inequality is much worse in the US than Europe, so relatively speaking, "poor" in EU is still much better than "poor" in the US.

> Wealth inequality is much worse in the US than Europe, so relatively speaking, "poor" in EU is still much better than "poor" in the US.

Besides the questionable practice of lumping all of European countries into a single "Europe" block for debates like this, a single metric like wealth inequality, for instance, isn't useful to compare how countries or regimes are faring.

For instance, by that metric, the following countries are better than Sweden: Belarus, Moldova, UAE, Algeria, Iraq. And places like Myanmar and Poland are better than Austria.

source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/wealth-in...

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#167

Post by pif »

jefftk wrote: post #75
bunbun69 wrote: post #35

Meta can still use personal data for ads. They just have to explicitly ask for consent. I do not like these sensationalized titles on HN.

I would be totally fine with a regulation where they had to ask before using personal data to show ads. The overreach is that the GDPR requires that the user be able to say "no" but still use the service -- you can't make use of the service conditional on accepting ads, and you can't require users to pay instead.

> you can't make use of the service conditional on accepting ads

Edited for you: you can't make use of the service conditional on accepting personalized ads

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#168

Post by AdrianB1 »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #15
Nextgrid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because we somehow ended up in a situation where spyware got effectively decriminalised doesn't mean it's a good situation especially in the long-term. If nobody is willing to pay for your product, maybe it shouldn't exist?

Can Meta cover its operational costs without personalized ads? Re: its ability to exist. Or is the issue that it’s unpalatable to wall st and investors and advertisers without ad personalization driven growth

No idea if they can, but there are better ways to deliver personalized ads without spying on users; for example I am interested in some areas (motorcycles, home improvement/DYI, indie music) and not at all in others (fashion, clothing and perfumes).

I am no Meta user at all, but if I would be then I would love to set my ads preferences and get only adds that have value to me and to the companies paying for these ads and get right of the ones I never act on. That brings a lot of value for all parties.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#169

Post by wccrawford »

britneybitch wrote: post #17
whimsicalism wrote: post #6

[flagged]

Child labor laws and minimum wage also made some revenue models untenable, and the world is better off for it. I want to live in a world where businesses can profit without having to spy on people. This is a good step in that direction.

I think their point wasn't the regulations, but the unpredictability of those regulations. It's hard to start a business if you're worried the rug will be pulled out from under you at some point in the future.
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