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I am done. I give up

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Re: I am done. I give up

#161
Just want to chime in as someone who lived as a "digital nomad" overseas for about a decade in the early 2000s before that was a fad - and never touted it: the influencers ruined it. Along with all the people trying to do the same thing. The whole point was to get away from the world of high school type popularity bullshit and go experience the world and other cultures long term, on their own terms. That's exactly the opposite of the package being sold by influencers.

But also, although I had two major years-long, difficult and ultimately failed startup ventures of my own during that time period, they were side projects and never what paid the bills.

So I'll let you in on what I see as the two big cons being sold to Gen Z:

1. Your startup will take off and be what establishes you. No. Startups are what you do in your spare time on the long chance that one of them hits and gets you to fuck you money. They only succeed if you already have connections from regular business, unless you're incredibly lucky and go viral for reasons no one can predict.

2. Degrees and certifications followed by 9-5 or 8-10 hours as an engineer will get you that freedom. They will not.

What paid for my travel and for my house was something that is not sold at all on social media, and barely mentioned on HN. It was working as an independent contractor, coding and managing systems for small to midsized businesses. Shop owners. But not ANY shop. Only the ones where I thought they had a real chance of taking off. And then, at times, accepting some early equity as pay but only if I believed in it. At other times, demanding top dollar. And always working alone. Never under a boss, and never dealing with anyone lower than a CEO.

I did not have a successful startup, and maybe I never will - although I still code for fun a lot, and who knows. But I took or turned down projects based on how I wanted to shape my career, and made myself indispensable and reliable at all hours for the clients I took, even if I was halfway around the world in a van on solar power. People like that are hard to find for a small business and eventually they rely on you.

If I were in your shoes I would just print a business card and go to where people with growing small businesses hang out... with the idea of finding the next one that you can help grow, of which you will ultimately be CTO along with investments in other things, and time to pursue your own startups should you want to shoot the moon for that once-in-a-lifetime money.

But the way it's sold these days reminds me of my little brother who graduated with a sociology degree and couldn't find a job. Working a regular job like retail was below him... but he spent years doing it having a grudge. Whereas I just didn't go to college, worked at a mall kiosk and learned to hack... and picked up my first major clients right there at the mall just by throwing ideas at them.

[edit] I'd also like to add that I've never had an account on Instagram or Facebook, and the idea of trying to monetize a lifestyle - even one I actually had, let alone one I was just faking to gain followers - has always been revolting to me. But mainly for the same reason all self-help guruism is revolting, namely, if a person knows how to be as successful as they claim, they wouldn't need to sell the secret. Anyone who sells a supposed secret is therefore just cynically taking advantage of gullible people, which besides being unethical, doesn't count as an actual accomplishment.

Re: I am done. I give up

#162
> It's okay to admit defeat and move on to something else.

It is not defeat to not succeed at starting a business.

I don't just mean in a semantic sense. It will hurt your ability to make good business decisions if you consider folding to be a personal failure.

It is what it is. It didn't work this time and that still sucks, but you're absolutely on the right path here. Do something else for a while. Just being employed, doing something productive is a good antidote to all the soul-eroding things a business owner has to do.

Oh and fuck social media. Seriously, if you choose to follow gigachads who risk money they can afford to risk and somehow make a profit every time, they're just not showing you the ventures that fail. Many are personality confidence tricks to begin with.

The rest of us —that aren't Elon Stans anyway— are just slogging away. Do what makes you happiest. If you can afford the sentiment, money isn't everything.

Re: I am done. I give up

#163
I think what matter most is the product. If the product already exist, the chance of success will be low especially if there are top companies in the competition. I think trying multiple time is great, chances of failure will always be higher than success but we gonna keep moving. Keep improving, learn SEO e.t.c Fund is really important, but one can always start small. I wish all indie entrepreneur like me well, we not gonna give up.

Re: I am done. I give up

#164
You, cant', control, everything. Especially if you are not in the right place with the right connections and so forth. YC initial startups were cool built by smart people but their astonishingly high success rate is due to other factors as well: this not to diminish their value but to put things in context. So don't be mad at yourself if you can't create a successful business. Try to solve a smaller problem with paying customers to build your 500k/year business and enjoy life or just get a normal job and don't care. Take care.

Re: I am done. I give up

#165

It's not defeat, it is the expected outcome. Out of 20 or so of my projects two have been break-out successes and the rest (commercially) complete failures, and I'm very lucky to have two out of those 20, with very small variations in timing it would have been a big fat zero. So don't beat yourself up about it, some people win the lottery and the majority don't. There is absolutely no recipe that will work every time…

I was an engineer at a successful startup. We grew, we went bankrupt, we laid off most the company, the founders kicked in enough to keep us going and we restructured to give the remaining people larger shares. We became profitable and finally sold to another company. My payday was about $70k, which was a nice bonus, I was happy to get it. I moved on to big tech. The company withered away, the company that bought it…

> The domain keeps getting renewed

This is a funny thing with companies that get taken over.

My dad used to run an ISP, one of the first ones in my home country. I'm talking 28.8kbit modems. The company was sold and shut down more than 20 years ago. The company that bought them out got bought out, that company then got bought and, and this repeated a few times.

The domain still keeps getting renewed, and for a while redirected to the main page of the largest IT firm in the country. I assume that, along the way of all those acquisitions, domains just kept getting transferred, and nobody knows what those domains are, but it's cheaper to just renew than to find out.

Anyway, it's a fun little reminder of the impact my dad made in this world :)

https://web.archive.org/web/19970409101251/http://www.est.is...

Re: I am done. I give up

#166
I genuinely don't mean this to sound negative, or defeatist – sometimes nuance is difficult to convey in plain text.

I think giving up a dream can sometimes be the best choice, the sensible choice. Some dreams just aren't going to work out (I say this from personal experience), and giving up on them allows you to move on to focus on other things that might work better.

Take care of yourself and I wish you the best for the future.

Re: I am done. I give up

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was an engineer at a successful startup. We grew, we went bankrupt, we laid off most the company, the founders kicked in enough to keep us going and we restructured to give the remaining people larger shares. We became profitable and finally sold to another company. My payday was about $70k, which was a nice bonus, I was happy to get it. I moved on to big tech. The company withered away, the company that bought it…

That sucks. I know quite a few stories like that. I'm more active as an investor these days than as an entrepreneur, the projects I still run are more for fun than for income (or even potential income) and I can't tell you how happy I am that that pressure has abated somewhat. It's annoying that even the successes tend to screw over the employees and more often than not the founders as well. Typical dilution by the t…

> That sucks.

Don't get me wrong; it was a good experience, as well as being good experience. I got paid a decent salary throughout, the work was frequently interesting, and my coworkers were great, not that I've done a good job of keeping in touch.

But it wasn't a life-changing payday, and even the investors mostly broke even. It was a success in that it became profitable with a couple mil in revenue, not in the VC sense.

Besides the whole period where we ran out of money, laid off half the company, and were months away from going under, the only real downside was that, as a small company, I was basically on call 24/7 to deal with problems with my part of the world. It didn't come up often but when it did it sucked.

Re: I am done. I give up

#168
Survivor bias. Plus the mere act of "making it" is a great marketing tool on its own.

People love to hear success stories, and in turn they might spend money on hearing those stories in order to learn the secrets of the survivor as it were. This is why there are so many such stories, yet one may wonder how many simply live off selling stories like that, instead of actually reaping the rewards of their purported success...

IMHO if a guy can give out good advice for free, because he's already making enough on his success, then it's more authentic than a guy who sells his success stories. OTOH I get that successful people might be pressed for time, and that time taken away to tell the story might get in the way of following up on his actual success. In this way I guess success breeds success. And that's why you see a lot of people pushing their success stories due to survivor bias.

We're actually talking pedagogy here. The perspective of a survivor is quite different than a guy still struggling. So the question really being asked is, how can the survivor better explain to the struggler how to succeed? It's difficult to answer, and it may entail such things as silent knowledge, or details that are hard to convey. The path to success is different for people, and some do indeed have it far easier than others.

So how do you learn from that? Is the lessons from one-who-had-it-easy valuable? Well, sure, if those lessons lead to finding an easier route. But it could equally be a dead end. There is little to learn from one who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, for instance, if your own spoon is made of lead.

On the flipside, there might not be as much to learn from someone who struggled a lot, because what if that person simply made a lot of mistakes? Perhaps he is cognizant of those mistakes; well, then you may learn from them. But if not, then perhaps it isn't as valuable. Though in general, when you reflect over mistakes—your own, or others—there is perhaps a lot to learn from that, as you'll at least learn what to avoid.

Re: I am done. I give up

#169
post #34

It's not defeat, it is the expected outcome. Out of 20 or so of my projects two have been break-out successes and the rest (commercially) complete failures, and I'm very lucky to have two out of those 20, with very small variations in timing it would have been a big fat zero. So don't beat yourself up about it, some people win the lottery and the majority don't. There is absolutely no recipe that will work every time…

What rate is the cutoff at which people give up entrepreneurship altogether? I wonder how big has the opportunity cost of monopolies been in the past decade

> Entrepreneurship is like one of those carnival games where you throw darts or something.

> Middle class kids can afford one throw. Most miss. A few hit the target and get a small prize. A very few hit the center bullseye and get a bigger prize. Rags to riches! The American Dream lives on.

> Rich kids can afford many throws. If they want to, they can try over and over and over again until they hit something and feel good about themselves. Some keep going until they hit the center bullseye, then they give speeches or write blog posts about "meritocracy" and the salutary effects of hard work.

> Poor kids aren't visiting the carnival. They're the ones working it.

-madaxe_again, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15659076

Re: I am done. I give up

#170
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with a life style business to begin with, the negative stigma is there only because certain VCs feel that you are a horrible person for not cutting them in on the action so they can diversify their portfolios.

This . I really dislike the term "lifestyle business". What's wrong with a stable long-term business that makes founders and customers happy? Why does every business need GROWTH GROWTH GROWTH at all costs, even if the result is a net negative for customers? I sometimes explain to customers that if my business were VC-funded, it would grow and be developed much faster, but in the end there would need to be an exit and…

> What's wrong with a stable long-term business that makes founders and customers happy?

And employees.

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