Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Are super-rich people just better at making money?

pudding.cool

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 587 posts

Re: Are super-rich people just better at making money?

#161

Post by Garlef »

bawolff wrote: post #47
smilekzs wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I've noticed consistently, is when politicians talk about "taxing the wealthy", they almost always follow that with "earning more than $xxxk a year". This is conflating wealth with income. Being within this tax bracket myself, I do not deny that I am biased, but I do hope this bullshit gets called out hard whenever someone brings up yet another underhanded measure to milk us (typical SFBay SWE) above and be…

As a practical matter, it is very difficult to tax wealth (and even harder to do it fairly.) I don't think the issue is lack of will but lack of plan that actually works in the face of assets with unclear value and/or difficult to liquidate. And this doesn't just affect the ultra rich but people like SWE too. How much is the stock you have in the non-public company you work at really worth? SWE are probably one of th…

One could very well argue that valley SWEs would be rightfully taxed by these measures.

Yes they're not the super rich.

But still among the top X %.

Re: Are super-rich people just better at making money?

#162

Post by Yizahi »

raverbashing wrote: post #141
Yizahi wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is reasonably easy. Step 1. The country creates a law forbidding any financial interactions with "offshore" countries (list is populated manually by lawmakers) and also with companies working with such offshore companies (shell intermediaries) in "good" countries. Step 2. Country forbids its citizens from owning any assets or be incorporated in the same "offshore" countries. Step 3. Blanket ban of cryptotokens. St…

Yeah, that's a very easy way... Of making all your modestly rich people close shop and leave > forbidding any financial interactions with "offshore" countries And what do you think "offshore" means? This is TikTok levels of financial naivety

Offshore is common term. Its collectively all those small countries which have minuscule corporate tax, zero financial rules and refusal to cooperate with big countries about financial tax evasion. Basically everyone from Ireland, Switzerland (sorry guys, just business) to Bahamas and Panama (and ban flags of convenience while we are at it). Definitely all countries refusing to disclose financial records for international law enforcement.

If I were planning such effort, I would propose do bans in waves, with multiyear intervals. E.g. ban of top10 worst offender countries - Cayman islands, British Virgin islands, Seychelles, etc. Then make a list of 10 next and warn them that they have 2-3 years to adjust or be banned too. Rinse and repeat.

Re: Are super-rich people just better at making money?

#163

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

bawolff wrote: post #47
smilekzs wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I've noticed consistently, is when politicians talk about "taxing the wealthy", they almost always follow that with "earning more than $xxxk a year". This is conflating wealth with income. Being within this tax bracket myself, I do not deny that I am biased, but I do hope this bullshit gets called out hard whenever someone brings up yet another underhanded measure to milk us (typical SFBay SWE) above and be…

As a practical matter, it is very difficult to tax wealth (and even harder to do it fairly.) I don't think the issue is lack of will but lack of plan that actually works in the face of assets with unclear value and/or difficult to liquidate. And this doesn't just affect the ultra rich but people like SWE too. How much is the stock you have in the non-public company you work at really worth? SWE are probably one of th…

> As a practical matter, it is very difficult to tax wealth (and even harder to do it fairly.)

Switzerland does it and it seems to work pretty well.

Re: Are super-rich people just better at making money?

#164

Post by oblio »

lelag wrote: post #99
bmitc wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rich buy stuff, do they not? Tax those things to force realization and thus tax of unrealized wealth. Buying a second, third, fourth home? Here's your increasingly high tax and interest rate penalty. Instead of throwing up our hands with "they don't have cash", force them to realize investments into cash and deincentivize being able to keep everything hidden being investments and purchasing things with unrealized…

> Buying a second, third, fourth home? It's too easy for the ultra-rich to find loopholes in any rules. If there is a tax on homeownership, they will simply not own any home but will own some corporate entity that own the asset. See ? No secondary residence. Just an investment in a corporation that happens to home a bunch of houses.

KYC plus as people said, no/very limited corporate ownership of residential properties.

Re: Are super-rich people just better at making money?

#165

Post by Hard_Space »

raverbashing wrote: post #141
Yizahi wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is reasonably easy. Step 1. The country creates a law forbidding any financial interactions with "offshore" countries (list is populated manually by lawmakers) and also with companies working with such offshore companies (shell intermediaries) in "good" countries. Step 2. Country forbids its citizens from owning any assets or be incorporated in the same "offshore" countries. Step 3. Blanket ban of cryptotokens. St…

Yeah, that's a very easy way... Of making all your modestly rich people close shop and leave > forbidding any financial interactions with "offshore" countries And what do you think "offshore" means? This is TikTok levels of financial naivety

This is in Dickens - Bleak House, I think, when he refers to all the under-taxed industrialists promising to 'pitch' their acumen into the Atlantic (i.e., move to the United States) if any government dares to restrict their income through increased taxation.

Re: Are super-rich people just better at making money?

#166

Post by bmitc »

jmeister wrote: post #67
bmitc wrote: post #3

To solve all this, it's pretty simple, and the U.S. actually used to do it: heavily tax the super rich. Heavy taxation and then appropriate use of those funds for education, R&D funding, infrastructure, etc. is actual trickle-down economics. And mega corporations should be heavily taxed instead of holding the country economically hostage. They jumpstart their companies off of government funding and R&D and then act a…

This focus on super-rich individuals is totally misguided. What's important is the economic system. Rich individuals are simply a nauseating side-effect of capitalism. Nobody really likes it, but there simply isn't anything better. The burden of proof is on the complainers. Even Marxist-sympathetic Peter Singer gets it. >Look, I think it would be better if you had an economic system in which we didn’t have billionair…

I don't get the productivity argument. What productivity is enabled by billionaires or even individuals? Noam Chomsky has covered this, but most corporations benefit extensively from decades of government funded research and development. The socialist driven productivity is there, it's just that we slap capitalism on it at the end and think it was that that got us here.

Re: Are super-rich people just better at making money?

#167

Post by 543g43g43 »

bmitc wrote: post #3

To solve all this, it's pretty simple, and the U.S. actually used to do it: heavily tax the super rich. Heavy taxation and then appropriate use of those funds for education, R&D funding, infrastructure, etc. is actual trickle-down economics. And mega corporations should be heavily taxed instead of holding the country economically hostage. They jumpstart their companies off of government funding and R&D and then act a…

Ah, the mythical "super-rich" who could fund all of our solutions, if only we could prise their money out of their clutching hands!

It's funny how they always exist, even in countries like the UK and France which in reality have taxed them out of existence, and payscales are absurdly compressed compared to the US.

Careful what you wish for, you are someone else's "super rich".

Re: Are super-rich people just better at making money?

#168

Post by est31 »

foldr wrote: post #49
smilekzs wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I've noticed consistently, is when politicians talk about "taxing the wealthy", they almost always follow that with "earning more than $xxxk a year". This is conflating wealth with income. Being within this tax bracket myself, I do not deny that I am biased, but I do hope this bullshit gets called out hard whenever someone brings up yet another underhanded measure to milk us (typical SFBay SWE) above and be…

Only the super-rich in America feel wealthy. Everyone else is trapped in an unwinnable game of keeping up with the Jonses. I can almost guarantee that if you actually listed the concrete reasons that you don’t think of yourself as wealthy, they would seem ridiculous to the majority of middle class Americans. (Although obviously I don’t know your personal circumstances. I am thinking of the general case of a seniorish…

> Only the super-rich in America feel wealthy. Everyone else is trapped in an unwinnable game of keeping up with the Jonses.

Tbh even the super-rich feel poor. If you own 10 million, you might have a social network in which there is a guy who owns 100. If you own 100 million, you might know a billionaire. And the billionaire might have met someone like Bezos or Musk. Usually the richer you get, the higher is the wealth differential you are exposed to. You might be proud of your 3 supercar collection, but a guy you know has a hangar full with 200 supercars.

Re: Are super-rich people just better at making money?

#169

Post by ls15 »

Yizahi wrote: post #109
bawolff wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a practical matter, it is very difficult to tax wealth (and even harder to do it fairly.) I don't think the issue is lack of will but lack of plan that actually works in the face of assets with unclear value and/or difficult to liquidate. And this doesn't just affect the ultra rich but people like SWE too. How much is the stock you have in the non-public company you work at really worth? SWE are probably one of th…

It is reasonably easy. Step 1. The country creates a law forbidding any financial interactions with "offshore" countries (list is populated manually by lawmakers) and also with companies working with such offshore companies (shell intermediaries) in "good" countries. Step 2. Country forbids its citizens from owning any assets or be incorporated in the same "offshore" countries. Step 3. Blanket ban of cryptotokens. St…

You lost me at step 1. Punishing people because their families live in what some people deem "offshore" is heartless. Also, forget modern technology like smartphones if you only can do trade with "good" countries.

Re: Are super-rich people just better at making money?

#170

Post by abigail95 »

sigg3 wrote: post #40
hackerman123469 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But tell me, how are you going to tax the super rich? It's incredibly difficult to tax someone who's actually poor on paper. Most super rich people actually don't seem to have much wealth officially declared, all of their wealth is sort of like "pseudo" in that it's all tied up in assets, and sometimes assets that aren't directly owned by them but their companies etc. and they have a lot of shortcuts for tax breaks o…

Of course you can track down de facto ownership and streams of income regardless of de jure separation. This is a question of political will, not economical (im)possibilities. Whenever you try making rich people responsible, they move abroad. In Norway, the super rich are becoming Swiss citizens after a recent change in taxation. Unless Switzerland takes social responsibility, they're getting away with it. But if Swi…

Is that not the point?

If the billionaires are net negative and worse than the value they provide, ie billionaires are harmful to society, it seems the easiest way to reduce inequality is just to have them leave.

That's win/win for everyone, they keep their money, you get a society without billionires.

Post reply on HN