Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America • Hacker News Board

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#161

Post by Zircom » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 3:26 PM UTC

TheCenterSeat wrote: post #150

I thought ycombinator tried to stay away from political stuff? I've been around for years and that was usually the case. Why is there a popular post about drug addiction and the response from "Washington"? This isn't tech related. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html#comments I'll quote the guidelines here: "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity." Most c…

The guidelines also say not to comment complaining that a submission is off topic or inappropriate for HN, so you need to make up your mind on whether you actually wanna follow them or not.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#162

Post by mitchdoogle » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 3:26 PM UTC

jdmtheNth wrote: post #86

There needs to be more focus on why people need drugs to cope, rather than whether or not to legalize them.

That is the whole point of legalizing them. Take away the criminal aspect and focus entirely on the medical and psychological aspects.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#163

Post by tstrimple » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 3:27 PM UTC

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #146

jack_pp wrote: post #46

This would be solved if drugs were decriminalized and testing kits were very easy to use and come by but I guess a lot more people have to die before society as a whole acquires common sense

Drug abuse is a much smaller problem in east Asia where it is intensely criminalized. In Singapore drug trafficking is a capital offense. Drug abuse is a massive problem in those parts of the US where it is de-facto decriminalized on the west coast. I think the evidence is fairly clear on what would constitute a solution, rather the debate is on whether we’d be willing to pay the costs of that solution.

In what world is this a west coast issue? You know that these drugs are ravaging the rust belt area right?

https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/deaths/2020.html

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#164

Post by standardUser » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 3:27 PM UTC

overthemoon wrote: post #106

jack_pp wrote: post #46

This would be solved if drugs were decriminalized and testing kits were very easy to use and come by but I guess a lot more people have to die before society as a whole acquires common sense

People keep saying this. I don't get it. What's the proposed cause/effect of decriminalization on drug overdoses specifically? Testing kits, sure. And I see the argument for much softer sentences for small amounts with regards to reducing the egregious number of people in the prison system, although that is also a tangential issue to overdoses.

If drugs are legalized and regulated, overdoses and deaths from contamination would mostly disappear, as would black market violence. Decriminalization simply stops users from being thrown in jail, it does little to prevent suffering and death.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#165

Post by DontchaKnowit » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 3:29 PM UTC

5440 wrote: post #113

I audit a lot of these Fentanyl API (Active Pharma Ingredient) factories in China. Its noticeable to me when I go through the warehouses as to how much product is going to Mexico. Other segments go to India for legal fill finishing prior to North America, while other small shipments are going to compounding facilities across the US. I always thought FDA might want to relay this information to homeland security, becau…

Is there any way you could point me to more information about these facilities and or the auditing process?

Back in college, I was a fiend for all type of stuff that was presumably made at these facilities. I would purchase styff from american and canadian resellers who had labs in china that would synth specific drugs for them. Always wondered what the lab conditions were like, what likelihood I was supporting nefarious business practices, how likely it was that I got harmful byproducts etc.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#166

Post by standardUser » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 3:29 PM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #126

jack_pp wrote: post #46

This would be solved if drugs were decriminalized and testing kits were very easy to use and come by but I guess a lot more people have to die before society as a whole acquires common sense

Nah. You need legalization and regulation so that people can buy known doses of known substances. Decriminalization is nice for keeping users out of jail, but as long as manufacture and sales are illegal the supply is still going to be fucked.

Absolutely. And decriminalization only further fuels black markets here and abroad, leading to more violence.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#167

Post by mitchdoogle » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 3:29 PM UTC

adrr wrote: post #60

323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

Opiates used to be unregulated in the US and the US had an opiate addiction issue. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/inside-story-americas...

Well ya duh. The substance is addictive. There will be addicts whether it is legal or not. But addiction isn't a criminal issue. It's a medical one, so we should treat it as such and stop sending users to prison and stop creating a market for organized crime to make billions

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#168

Post by tstrimple » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 3:34 PM UTC

stephen_g wrote: post #105

Joker_vD wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One marvels as to why e.g. Russia or China don't covertly push funds and efforts into drug legalization in the US if that would widely harm its population and weaken it as a whole. But to the best of my knowledge, they apparently don't, so this is a (somewhat weak) argument in favour of legalization.

Why do you think “Russia or China” would actually care in any way to want to harm random Americans?

I don't necessarily subscribe to this belief, but they wouldn't care about the random individuals but rather the societal level impacts of such a policy should they think it would be disruptive.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#169

Post by mitchdoogle » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

thepasswordis wrote: post #66

323 wrote: post #20

All drugs should be legalized. That is the only solution. You should be able to buy cocaine, heroin, fentanyl at the local grocery store. No question asked. Maybe even subsidize it for poor people who can't afford market prices. The local pharmacy should provide training on how to inject/consume them safely and give for free the associated consumables.

The problem is not that people don’t know they’re using fentanyl.

That is the problem according to the article that prompted this post. Organized crime is selling $4 pills that contain fentanyl and look like oxycodone pills when black market oxycodone (the real thing) sells for $30 a pill.

Re: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America

#170

Post by diogenescynic » Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 3:37 PM UTC

Washington (democrats and republicans, including Obama and Trump) did as they were paid to do. The Sackler family did this on purpose, as their parents did with Benzos and other painkillers. They purposely increased the addictiveness then lied about it. Then the government gave them immunity after their deadly product killed hundreds of thousands to millions of Americans.