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World Cup Daily, Day 25

grantwahl.substack.com

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Re: World Cup Daily, Day 25

#161

Post by CyberDildonics »

donatj wrote: post #26

Maybe I am just cynical, but I highly doubt many leaders would actually care about a worker’s death. Most would like have the decorum and PR experience to feign shock, but I doubt you’d get more than an empty “oh that’s terrible“ from most in power. To me the fact that anyone would find this shocking is the most shocking part as it implies people are believing politicians facades.

I highly doubt many leaders would actually care about a worker’s death

Not A workers death. 6,500 worker deaths. That's over double the number of people that died on 911.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/r...

These were healthy people that had their passports taken away from them and worked until they died and you're talking about a single death.

In 1931 5 people died building the empire state building.

https://www.reference.com/history-geography/many-people-died...

Re: World Cup Daily, Day 25

#162

Post by zopa »

lupire wrote: post #114
zopa wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe no memorial but for sure an OSHA incident report. https://www.osha.gov/recordkeeping/ There’s plenty of room for improvement. But it used to be that a 10,000 person steel mill could expect 1200 deaths and serious injuries each year. That only changed because people cared enough to fight for better conditions.

OSHA report is the memorial of the bureaucracy. It serves the same purpose.

Correct. Or at least overlapping purposes

Re: World Cup Daily, Day 25

#163

Post by zopa »

mdp2021 wrote: post #137
zopa wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it’s all a facade, but in the U.S. such shows of concern have gotten us effective workplace safety regulation. I don’t really care if the politicians’ concern is fake: the avoided deaths are real.

Don't simply pardon civic decay - simulation - because of practical progress. Culture is paramount.

I think you might be missing the context of the thread, but maybe you can expand on your point a bit.

If it helps, you can safely read “I don’t really care about X” as “I think X is significantly more important than Y in this particular situation.”

Re: World Cup Daily, Day 25

#164

Post by tpmx »

somrand0 wrote: post #154
BurningFrog wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really need to learn more about slavery. We all hate our jobs from time to time, but keep it in perspective.

I think I added far too much perspective... so this comment may as well go unwritten, but whatever... reddit shadowbanned so many replies like these, because replying under a -4 points comment was still too visible. hn, otoh doesn't notify of replies so that covers the visibility reduction. I'm trying to understand what "public" means.. an employee is a public slave. also, don't undermine the meaning of my qualificat…

"without much choice about the terms? like, for example during a colonial period?"

Does that apply to you or the sports journalist?

Re: World Cup Daily, Day 25

#165

Post by BurningFrog »

somrand0 wrote: post #154
BurningFrog wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really need to learn more about slavery. We all hate our jobs from time to time, but keep it in perspective.

I think I added far too much perspective... so this comment may as well go unwritten, but whatever... reddit shadowbanned so many replies like these, because replying under a -4 points comment was still too visible. hn, otoh doesn't notify of replies so that covers the visibility reduction. I'm trying to understand what "public" means.. an employee is a public slave. also, don't undermine the meaning of my qualificat…

The difference between employment and slavery is the same as between rape and normal sex: Consent.

The consensual and forced versions can involve the same activities, but morally there is a big difference.

It's true that you may need to work to afford food and housing etc. But to me, that's just the human condition. We all need certain things, and most of them we need the help of other people to get.

Work and money is how we help each other and make sure everyone contributes.

Re: World Cup Daily, Day 25

#166

Post by zhengiszen »

snapplebobapple wrote: post #146
m12k wrote: post #10

It seems pretty obvious that a totalitarian petrostate, that bribed its way into using a global sports event as a massive PR push, doesn't care. What matters is whether we care that they don't care. What matters is whether we care that our sports institutions are massively corrupt.

It's not that it's a petrostate, it's that this has been the view of the region forever. This region did not come to the moral conclusion that slavery was wrong, they only stopped when Europeans showed up with gun boats and forced them to cut it out (Also, why isn't anyone asking these guys wtf happened to all the black slaves they imported because basically none of them exist in the region today despite the region l…

Quite the shortcut you took there mate... Europeans stopped slavery when it was no more economically interesting for them to go on. Still they kept going in their remote colonies (Brasil, USa,...)

Re: World Cup Daily, Day 25

#167

Post by mdp2021 »

zopa wrote: post #163
mdp2021 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't simply pardon civic decay - simulation - because of practical progress. Culture is paramount.

I think you might be missing the context of the thread, but maybe you can expand on your point a bit. If it helps, you can safely read “I don’t really care about X” as “I think X is significantly more important than Y in this particular situation.”

> significantly more important

Those are much better terms ;)

Re: World Cup Daily, Day 25

#168

Post by twobitshifter »

sphinxster wrote: post #117
twobitshifter wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn’t use the entire country, use the number of workers working on the World Cup.

Where is the line? One could equally then argue use the number working on only the one construction site. Eventually a point can be reached where 1 death may "seem" improbable. A wider view reveals a context people seem to have missed.

The line is whatever level is being overseen by the official. If someone gets burned at a Dunkin’ Donuts, first would be the manager of that Dunkin’, then the regional manager, and then eventually the CMO. Maybe the CMO deals with reports of burns in a spreadsheet, because they see so many. For this case, you’ve misaligned a World Cup employee with the purview of the leader of the country. The number of migrant worker deaths in Qatar is not their concern, but the number of deaths of migrants working on the World Cup is.

Re: World Cup Daily, Day 25

#169

Post by [deleted] »

jacooper wrote: post #99
permo-w wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while I agree that Russia and the USA have done much worse than Qatar has ever done, I think people are more willing to be lenient to Russia and the USA on this because there’s some footballing history there. as more or less a marketing operation, Qatar have just turned up with a load of cash and built some stadiums in the desert, and then FIFA expects everyone to take it lying down I genuinely think it’s more about…

Since when was football history a deciding factor in the world cup? And who said Arabs don't have football history anyway?

[deleted]

Re: World Cup Daily, Day 25

#170

Post by permo-w »

jacooper wrote: post #99
permo-w wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while I agree that Russia and the USA have done much worse than Qatar has ever done, I think people are more willing to be lenient to Russia and the USA on this because there’s some footballing history there. as more or less a marketing operation, Qatar have just turned up with a load of cash and built some stadiums in the desert, and then FIFA expects everyone to take it lying down I genuinely think it’s more about…

Since when was football history a deciding factor in the world cup? And who said Arabs don't have football history anyway?

Arabs? who said anything about Arabs
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