UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades • Hacker News Board

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#161

Post by thoughtstheseus » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 3:57 PM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #147

thoughtstheseus wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our difference seems to be that I don’t put much weight on your view that nationalism will dominate the discussion. Standard of living will. My hope is UK citizens make decisions to benefit themselves, their family, friends, and community. The UK cannot maintain its current standard of living without a very large partnership of some sort. Once living standards get bad enough people will be open to non-traditional opt…

> The EU can’t offer much energy, national security, or manufacturing support these days and U.S. is the only other reasonable option. The UK literally relies on the EU energy market (and vice versa), with lots of imports and exports between the two. There isn't enough of it, but there's already a codependency there. National security is debatable, but as a part of the EU the UK would be leader among equals (big army…

We’ve seen the result of that reliance. UK’s non-subsidized energy prices have skyrocketed and it’s unclear what the remedy will be. If you know one please tell me. I’ve been to the UK and talked to power players there and the only plan I’ve heard is “temporary” deindustrialization to maintain consumer comforts.

National security - the UK is THE leader in Europe. The EU seems unwilling to field a credible military deterrence. That’s not being equals IMO. Slowly that’s changing now… but the UK is already integrating its military industrial base with the U.S. so that ship has sailed.

Manufacturing - I used that word as a catch-all for providing goods and services.

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#162

Post by rsj_hn » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 8:32 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #137

rsj_hn wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if, by "fighting back", you mean destroying its own economy, then yes, The West is "fighting back". But not the world , as the vast majority of nations - 7 Billion people -- are not imposing any sanctions because they have more rational leadership than in the 1 Billion people that are destroying their own economy in the name of "fighting back". The main reason why the West is in rapid decline at the moment is…

The vast majority of the world has no economic power to impose meaningful sanctions. They are suffering already. The Ukraine situation is also a message to China, which makes it more worthwhile.

The sanctions have driven Russia and China together to being strong allies, which is a strategic defeat for the U.S.

But you are right, they do send a "message", which is that the West is an irrational actor that undermines its own interests, and is thus an untrustworthy ally. This is why Saudi Arabia and Turkey are moving away from the U.S. towards the emerging Axis of Sanity

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#163

Post by rsj_hn » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 8:53 PM UTC

kentrado wrote: post #125

rsj_hn wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if, by "fighting back", you mean destroying its own economy, then yes, The West is "fighting back". But not the world , as the vast majority of nations - 7 Billion people -- are not imposing any sanctions because they have more rational leadership than in the 1 Billion people that are destroying their own economy in the name of "fighting back". The main reason why the West is in rapid decline at the moment is…

What would you do instead?

I would not apply sanctions, and not do anything until the opportunity arose to do something that is effective.

The idea that we must perform an ineffective and self-destructive measure just because it's the only one we can think of doing is not good statecraft.

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#164

Post by sgt101 » Sat, Nov 26, 2022, 6:26 PM UTC

cloutchaser wrote: post #156

adrian_b wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see which advantage is conferred by the Euro to the German economy, at least in the relationship with UK. Unlike Germany, UK has always been free to establish any exchange rate they desired, between GBP and EUR. So only UK could have any advantages from the manipulation of the currencies. Within the countries that use EUR, it can be claimed that Germany has the advantage that the other countries cannot chea…

The only reason Germany become such an export powerhouse is because their currency was lower than what it would have been naturally as a country. Because countries like Greece and Italy pulled the euro down. This was very convenient for Germany as they could build exports cheaply. If you don’t understand this, which is a very basic part of how the eu ended up as what it is, I would just question the rest of your comm…

I don't blame Germans and Germany for taking advantage, but the political maturity to use this to create security and prosperity for everyone in Europe is completely lacking. I suppose unification and the problems afterwards are somewhat to blame.

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#165

Post by mensetmanusman » Sat, Nov 26, 2022, 8:12 PM UTC

rsj_hn wrote: post #162

mensetmanusman wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of the world has no economic power to impose meaningful sanctions. They are suffering already. The Ukraine situation is also a message to China, which makes it more worthwhile.

The sanctions have driven Russia and China together to being strong allies, which is a strategic defeat for the U.S. But you are right, they do send a "message", which is that the West is an irrational actor that undermines its own interests, and is thus an untrustworthy ally. This is why Saudi Arabia and Turkey are moving away from the U.S. towards the emerging Axis of Sanity

Russia will be a satellite state of China, but one could argue that was going to happen anyway.

Re: UK households set for largest fall in living standards in six decades

#166

Post by SideburnsOfDoom » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 8:25 AM UTC

newZWhoDis wrote: post #135

piva00 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m hoping the UK joins the United States. We’ve already started to merge our military industrial base and have a long, shared history. Maybe they would receive preference for US LNG/coal shipments too as a result. This is unrealistic bordering absurd, you just came out of Brexit sold under the pretense of increased freedom and sovereignty. The UK didn't even like the special deal it had with the EU, unique concess…

I mean I agree it’s not popular, but the UK would be better off as a 51st state than they currently are now.

Small point: but the _United Kingdom of etc._ is already a Union of 4 states (countries, whatever), it's not about to become a single state of anything.

If anything, each of those 4 states in increasingly looking to find an alliance that works for them individually. The UK exited the European Union, and that is in turn weakening the United Kingdom's Union. What a surprise.