Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail • Hacker News Board

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#161

Post by ceejayoz » Tue, Nov 22, 2022, 8:05 PM UTC

douglaswlance wrote: post #133

wpietri wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They really don't. Not every document has to include all things relevant back to the big bang. That bit in particular has been discussed by lots of people for quite a while, including a ton of posts right here, so if you just fell off the turnip truck and are truly unaware of the web3 critiques, a little searching should set you straight. Heck, I'll even give you a place to start: https://web3isgoinggreat.com/

Did the failure of Enron mean that the US financial system itself is a scam? If not, then why should a scam on a blockchain be evidence that that blockchain itself is a scam?

Enron was followed by regulation reworking the system to prevent it from happening again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes%E2%80%93Oxley_Act

There's little indication the crypto ecosystem is inclined to do the same. See, for example, Tether's continued core role despite years of lying about audits and getting caught cooking the books for their attestations.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#162

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Nov 22, 2022, 8:05 PM UTC

unstoppablecode wrote: post #145

k__ wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web3 isn't one centralized entity that's either fake or true. It's a bunch of bullshit, mixed with many slick ideas. I believe in web3, but I also believe that art NFTs and crypto bros running grifter companies like MtGOX and FTX give it a bad rap. Luckily, the ecosystem is now big enough that you can avoid that crap pretty easily.

Been an avid HN reader for 10+ years. Really surprised at the anti-crypto sentiment here. The tech speaks for itself despite the annoying meme coins. JP Morgan's father told him not to invest in Edison because he thought electricity was evil. Superior tech won out

[deleted]

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#163

Post by k__ » Tue, Nov 22, 2022, 8:05 PM UTC

m00dy wrote: post #148

k__ wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. I liked the term web3 somehow, but the more I read how people react to it, it might be already burned.

More and more people realize the difference between cefi and defi. I have never seen a defi protocol wrecked during this bear market. Everybody is talking about Tether, but who knows DAI ?

To be fair, DAI is mostly backed by USDC.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#164

Post by asadotzler » Tue, Nov 22, 2022, 8:05 PM UTC

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #136

So many short-sighted critiques. Web3 or whatever might not be the answer, but you have to ask yourself a question: what's the internet going to look like in 2030, when the majority of its traffic is non-western, and a massive share of all purchasing power resides in Africa and Asia? Do you think by 2030, all global governments and their citizens will voluntarily give away control over what they can consume and creat…

None of this, though reasonably stated, is good reason why crypto should underpin what comes next. And 7 years goes by fast. I've been in the web business professionally for almost 25 years and I can promise you that the fundamentals of the platform are not going to be upended by the fantasies of crypto dreamers by 2030. Hopefully we'll see more decentralization, or at least decentralized solutions more effectively competing with the centralized systems, but we're absolutely not going to see HTML, CSS, and JS apps and sites served over HTTPS replaced by this Web3 nonsense. My prediction is that the web of 2030 will look pretty much like it does today with a bit more capability and a somewhat different set of dominant players. My wish is that some of those dominant players are building experiences that are more user empowering, with better privacy and even anonymity characteristics.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#165

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Nov 22, 2022, 8:09 PM UTC

douglaswlance wrote: post #133

wpietri wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They really don't. Not every document has to include all things relevant back to the big bang. That bit in particular has been discussed by lots of people for quite a while, including a ton of posts right here, so if you just fell off the turnip truck and are truly unaware of the web3 critiques, a little searching should set you straight. Heck, I'll even give you a place to start: https://web3isgoinggreat.com/

Did the failure of Enron mean that the US financial system itself is a scam? If not, then why should a scam on a blockchain be evidence that that blockchain itself is a scam?

[deleted]

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#166

Post by phphphphp » Tue, Nov 22, 2022, 8:11 PM UTC

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #136

So many short-sighted critiques. Web3 or whatever might not be the answer, but you have to ask yourself a question: what's the internet going to look like in 2030, when the majority of its traffic is non-western, and a massive share of all purchasing power resides in Africa and Asia? Do you think by 2030, all global governments and their citizens will voluntarily give away control over what they can consume and creat…

centralisation is human: it’s far more plausible that there’ll be multiple centralised systems separated by cultural boundaries — examples already exist, like China — than humans doing some sort radical cross-cultural shift from centralisation to decentralisation (which is itself a strange western-libertarian obsession).

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#167

Post by k__ » Tue, Nov 22, 2022, 8:12 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #146

k__ wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. The ones I wrote probably just have a few 10k max. Maybe, the Internet Archive is a better example millions of users?

The Internet Archive is a web3 project? It was founded in 1996. Web 2.0 didn't exist then.

Obviously it didn't start as one, but projects can transition, right?

Seemingly, the Internet Archive and Protocol Labs are bros.

https://blog.archive.org/2021/04/01/filecoin-foundation-gran...

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#168

Post by mlsu » Tue, Nov 22, 2022, 8:12 PM UTC

abiro wrote: post #127

Web3 refers to the emerging shift in internet value chains from permissioned, centralized databases to permissionless, decentralized databases where users own their data. The driving force behind Web3 is that we can now enforce invariants on state transitions in a permissionless, decentralized manner for a limited set of applications (mostly financial). For an even more limited set of applications, we can also enforc…

I think what gets me is that nobody ends up actually doing this.

The biggest and most productive entities on web3 that have the most users are the ones that everyone has heard of: crypto exchanges, or in other words, permissioned, centralized databases. Everything else seems to be a sideshow as far as actual usage is concerned. How do proponents of web3 square this?

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#169

Post by linuxdude314 » Tue, Nov 22, 2022, 8:13 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #118

linuxdude314 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s cynical at best. One of the goals of Web3 is to enable direct commerce without trusted intermediaries. Anyone here like using PayPal? What if instead you had the equivalent of cash that you could use on the internet? Web3 is attempting to create an economy decoupled from existing currencies (fiat). Unlike a country seigniorage determined ahead of time, and is publicly visible for all to see. If the idea of cre…

> One of the goals of Web3 is to enable direct commerce without trusted intermediaries That's the sales pitch, but the implementations all require basically anonymous, unaccountable intermediaries that are trusted.

So let’s just stop trying all together then, since things haven’t worked out well so far.

That is in effect what your statement is implying.

I’ll preface this by stating: running financial experiments on retail investors is immoral and likely criminal.

That being said, how many failures did Goddard have before his first successful liquid rocket? A lot!

He was ridiculed in newspapers, touted as crazy, and seen as a failure by a broad community.

If you’re interested, pay a visit to NASA’s Goddard Space and Flight center (named after the father of modern rocketry).

Why should failures of the past (most of which were human folly or greed) inhibit us from innovating our way to the future?

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#170

Post by ceejayoz » Tue, Nov 22, 2022, 8:13 PM UTC

k__ wrote: post #167

ceejayoz wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Internet Archive is a web3 project? It was founded in 1996. Web 2.0 didn't exist then.

Obviously it didn't start as one, but projects can transition, right? Seemingly, the Internet Archive and Protocol Labs are bros. https://blog.archive.org/2021/04/01/filecoin-foundation-gran...

Have they used that Filecoin for anything beyond the press release?