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5 Years of Pop _OS

blog.system76.com

161–170 of 187 posts

Re: 5 Years of Pop _OS

#161
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XFCE and Gnome are GTK, while KDE is QT. As long as they provide matching themes for QT and GTK it should be fine.

You are missing the picture that they provide full development experience stack for desktop development, similar to Framework/Kits/Components on major mainstream desktop and mobile OSes. Like always many of these experiences fail short by focusing on Look and leaving out the other 90% of the development experience.

GNOME and Qt both offer full-fledged UI frameworks. It sounds like you haven't given either a try before, but they're both quite capable. Programming for them doesn't feel any different than writing a Cocoa UI or an Android app or a website. It's just... another target.

Re: 5 Years of Pop _OS

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it does? If it doesn't matter, why are there two or even 3 options at times for the same software with little detail as to why? And if the packaging difference does matter (as it did for my vlc issue, one solution only worked for the deb), then an explanation for newbies should be given as to the general expectations for each package type. Or should I just "git gud" and go digging through ppa/flathub? mailing lis…

If it did matter there would be detail as to why. It doesn't. One of them was buggy, but again does not matter which one. > or should I just "git gud" The opposite. Just blindly click on one. If it works you are done, if not click on a different one. You are really, really overcomplicating this for no reason.

Nope, this is a very good point. Because for example you can't use Python/Selenium with a Flatpak version of Chromium, while you can with .deb version on Pop_OS. If you have no clue what the difference is between both of them, you would have no idea why it's not working in one case and not in the other.

Re: 5 Years of Pop _OS

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it matter? People that care know and people that don't know don't need to care.

Yes it does? If it doesn't matter, why are there two or even 3 options at times for the same software with little detail as to why? And if the packaging difference does matter (as it did for my vlc issue, one solution only worked for the deb), then an explanation for newbies should be given as to the general expectations for each package type. Or should I just "git gud" and go digging through ppa/flathub? mailing lis…

I feel your frustration and honestly with 25 years of desktop Linux experience I've come to the conclusion problems with software are most common in the deb packages. For better or worse Debian maintainers patch and hack apart software to work 'the Debian way' and that almost always introduces quirks and issues for end users that are never documented well.

Like for example I've been playing with Kodi and as a deb package you can't install some (but not all) add-ons through the built in UI, you have to go find special apt packages for them and install those outside the Kodi UI. Nowhere is this documented or visible to users--Kodi's webpage doesn't concern itself with how Debian packages it so no mention there, and Debian itself is a black hole of information for end users. The exact same issue is present with RetroArch and its Debian packages version. My bottom line is I always pick a deb package as the very last option and expect pain or confusion when doing so.

Re: 5 Years of Pop _OS

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They used to sell keyboards too, but there's no keyboards section in the store anymore. However, if you configure a computer and add a keyboard, add the whole thing to your cart, then go into your cart and remove the computer, the keyboard is still there and you can proceed to checkout. I'm not sure if this is intentional.

They still sell keyboards. https://system76.com/accessories/launch I’m not sure why there isn’t a tab in their nav bar, but they’re featured on the home page.

Wow those look really nice!

Re: 5 Years of Pop _OS

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve run most OSs under the sun. NixOS is a generation ahead.

How does NixOS compare to running Debian Stable? I've never had problems with upgrades breaking things on Debian stable.

Nothing structural about the way NixOS works at a technical level prevents it from being as stable and battle tested as Debian Stable, but it isn't in practice by my experience.

I would bet money that most people who are singing praise for NixOS have sunk significant time into absorbing the whole NixOS way of doing things, learning the Nix language, tinkering with their machine config, diagnosing non-trivial problems, etc.

It is just a smaller community and younger project. NixOS is nowhere neat as stable. The security story is, comparatively, simply not present (e.g. there is no equivalent of https://www.debian.org/security/ that I can find). The user base is tiny in comparison. Packaging up stuff for NixOS often requires non-trivial patches, downright hacks, or wrapper scripts for binaries that can break assumptions made by upstream and lead to little paper cut issues.

NixOS is many things, but it isn't a Debian Stable. They fill different roles. Debian is a mainstream distribution, and the problems you'll have will be similar to the problems most people have, so you'll be swimming with the tide and be able to find help. I see NixOS more as a rolling release distro that gives you a mechanism and programming language to control configuration and rollback, but a lot of those 80K NixOS packages are just kinda sitting there packaged up in a way that kinda worked at some point but isn't really solid.

I use Nix as a package manager on top of Debian, to bring in development tools, etc. This is relatively easy. When I tried using it as an OS I had to spend way too much time figuring out weird issues.

Re: 5 Years of Pop _OS

#166
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the picture that they provide full development experience stack for desktop development, similar to Framework/Kits/Components on major mainstream desktop and mobile OSes. Like always many of these experiences fail short by focusing on Look and leaving out the other 90% of the development experience.

GNOME and Qt both offer full-fledged UI frameworks. It sounds like you haven't given either a try before, but they're both quite capable. Programming for them doesn't feel any different than writing a Cocoa UI or an Android app or a website. It's just... another target.

They do, but Pop_OS new Rust based destkop doesn't, that is the point.

Have been around the Linux world long enough, all the way back to Slackware 2.0, and when getting FOSS software meant buying CDs from Walnut Creek.

Re: 5 Years of Pop _OS

#167

Pop_OS was great with Pop_Shell. It was a very pleasant experience; it was not perfect but could be polished. But they got NIH* syndrome and started this COSMIC desktop; UI changed, the whole experience changed, more bugs ruin our lives. And then they got "Let's rebuild everything in Rust" fever and the great experience of Pop_OS + Pop_Shell was lost forever. I understand the needs of creating unique experience for a…

Pop is still building on top of GNOME for COSMIC, they're just re-writing significant portions of the code to create an original desktop. Honestly, I think this was the right move. The community needs a central GNOME fork to tinker on, and Pop can be the catalyst for those developments if they play their cards right.

I agree the community needs a GNOME fork that serves the needs of the community and it could be feasible if System76 managed to bring other communities that build on top of GNOME like Cinnamon and Budgie, but this "re-writing significant portions" on their own without bring others is doomed.

Canonical already tried this with Unity8 and failed in a time they had much more popularity and community support than System76.

Re: 5 Years of Pop _OS

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debian never seemed to correctly recognize my wireless cards in multiple machines, even with the non-free ISOs

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33055100

I understand but nothing changes for me, I already used the non-free ISOs. The only difference is that they will put the non-free ISOs at the front and the regular in the back. The ISOs will be the same.

But thanks ;)

Re: 5 Years of Pop _OS

#169
Pop was rock solid for me until it wasn’t. Wouldn’t recognize memory and throttled one of my NICs after I installed an NVidia card and drivers. Reinstalling didn’t help. Installed Ubuntu Budgie and has been smooth sailing since.

I love Linux but wish it wasn’t such a pain and required blowing up installs every so often. By contrast, not once have I had to blow up a Mac OS instance to stabilize it.

Re: 5 Years of Pop _OS

#170

I'm a Linux idiot, just got sick of Windows, and took the plunge in 2016. (After some ill-fated tinkering in 1996 with Slackware, but we don't speak of that.) I started with Ubuntu and had a pretty good time for a year or two, until a dist-upgrade broke everything. Luckily /home/ was easy to restore from backup. So I was fine for another two years on Ubuntu until another dist-upgrade broke everything again. Sensing a…

you want Debian. dist-upgrade never broke on me in 25 years of usage
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