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Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

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Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#161

Isn't this just a culmination of nearly a decade of unforced errors and mismanaged strategy? I'm a complete outsider but I see a couple of fundamental huge misses by Intel over the past 10 or so years: 1) Completely missed the boat on mobile. Their ARM-competitive chips (Atom, etc.)... weren't. Missed on every measure from power to performance. Let Qualcomm and Samsung eat their lunch. 2) Missed too many ticks and re…

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Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a US citizen, but aren't the retirement funds managed by someone who should be held responsible for not diversifying?

Retirement funds do pretty OK here. Early in your career you'll mostly hold something like an S&P 500 index fund or a total stock market fund, as you get closer to retirement they shift the allocation towards safer investments. I don't love this; the total stock market is a lot of tech companies, and I already have plenty of exposure to tech by working in the field. It's a good heuristic for most people, though. (And…

Which retirement funds are doing ok this time around? They typically switch to bonds which thanks to inflation are down something like 20 percent in the last year (some more like 30), despite yielding far less than stocks in the best of times.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#163
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Harder to fire, harder to hire, without fail.

If you have a strong welfare state, it should make it easier to fire. This is the case in Denmark, some countries offer incentives to lay staff off temporarily but, generally, it isn't the case (which is why you have unbelievable levels of unemployment in Europe).

I might also have used the wrong terminology here. (English isn't my native language.)

However, I know for sure that in Germany, it isn't that easy to hire and fire people on a whim. In the US this seems to be the case.

Just in case, let me also clarify this:

I don't care, if you think the American system is better than the German one. I simply made the statement that even if not all EU countries have rulings like Germany, it is surely harder to fire people on a whim.

And also the article didn't mention where this will occur.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#164
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Completely missed the boat on mobile. Their ARM-competitive chips (Atom, etc.)... weren't. Missed on every measure from power to performance. Let Qualcomm and Samsung eat their lunch. I'm gonna add the caveat that the failure didn't happen out of the gate. Xscale was leagues ahead of anything else two decades ago. Atom stumbled at the start but Cherry Trail had a better price to performance ratio than anything tha…

In this market what counts is performance/watt ratio. Battery power is a big selling point for cell phones, and so you can charge a bit more for less watts. Though of course price does matter too. There are also embedded markets where you have to be passively cooled, again watts matter. My impression is Intel hit the price for embedded just fine, but at higher watts, and thus they can't compete.

In this market what counts is performance/watt ratio.

That was also excellent for Cherry Trail, with an SDP of 2 watts. When you have some time sit down and compare the benchmarks from a Cherry Trail tablet like the Surface 3 and its successor chips like the 4415Y. The 4415Y like the one in the Surface Go is three years newer, has a 60% higher TDP, a Recommended Customer Price over four times higher, and while its 3D chops are better it actually benchmarks lower than the Cherry Trail chip in PCMark.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft ignoring AMD in their latest Surface lineup is a hint for the people looking for answers I think the entire new surface line-up is a giant conspiracy. The Surface Pro 9 5G has a Qualcomm 8cx Gen 3 with some tweaks called the SQ3. It does not match the performance of 12 Gen intel in a 15w power envelope, which is important because the Surface Pro 9 non-5G (intel) uses an i5-1235u, a 15w chip. But the last…

Microsoft has an exclusivity agreement with Qualcomm that isn't doing them any favors.

It will do them great favors when the Qualcomm Hamoa Chip comes out which is supposed to be as good if not better than the Apple M2

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#166
post #117

Isn't this just a culmination of nearly a decade of unforced errors and mismanaged strategy? I'm a complete outsider but I see a couple of fundamental huge misses by Intel over the past 10 or so years: 1) Completely missed the boat on mobile. Their ARM-competitive chips (Atom, etc.)... weren't. Missed on every measure from power to performance. Let Qualcomm and Samsung eat their lunch. 2) Missed too many ticks and re…

I've typed this before but I'll type it again here. About 10 years ago I ran the local Python Meetup group here in Phoenix. Intel had/has a big presence here and one of they guys who worked on the Atom team (doing compiler optimizations for that chip family) told us (at one of the Meetups)Intel corporate didn't like how good a processor Atom was shaping up to be. They were worried it would start to cannibalize their…

If someone is going to eat your current business, it's better if it is you. Fear of cannibalization is basically, "our customers will find out we have an even better product for them than the one they are currently buying from us." It's a good thing for your customers, and it's good for the long-term competitiveness of your company.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's great that they are essentially "recycled" when new, better companies come along and eat their lunch. Don't you have on the order of tens of thousands of dollars invested in Intel through retirement savings, though? When S&P 500 companies fail, your retirement savings become worthless. (Apple is really the one you want to watch out for, though!)

Not a US citizen, but aren't the retirement funds managed by someone who should be held responsible for not diversifying?

> the retirement funds managed by someone who should be held responsible for not diversifying?

fund managers don't have "personal" or "corporate" assets that are anywhere near the scale of the (retirement) funds they manage; being held responsible for mismanagement would not lead to a source of capital to replace that which had been lost through mismanagement.

All investment has risk.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#168
This is going to become the norm for a while - many of these massive tech companies have a lot of dead weight, and these current conditions allow for the shedding of such weight. It will be painful, and not great for many - but at the end of the day we should emerge a more agile, stable, and innovative society. At least that is the hope. The age of exuberance is gone, time to put our heads together, and work hard again.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#169
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely missed the boat on mobile I think their main error was short-termism. They were addicted to high margin (workstation/server) devices. They had no interest in the low margins of mobile devices. They could not imagine how low-power devices would take over the world.

It's reported Steve Jobs did ask Intel to provide CPU for the first gen of iPhone, but the offer price was too low so Intel would lose money. If you were the CEO of Intel, how would you explain it to the board that "we should make this deal with Apple even with loss, because I think iPhone will be the next big thing"?

The proposal was unstable on both sides in fact. Jobs didn't fully appreciate the importance of power efficiency at the time - an internal team scrambled to demonstrate why Intel would have been a non-starter due to power budget. There were also ecosystem issues, since gearing up for an embedded device at that time mostly meant choosing ARM architecture for that complexity tier they were engineering.

So a deal based on any price wasn't a realistic avenue for iPhone. The fact that Intel was actually considered was itself a radical move on behalf of Steve (absent the technical obstacles that emerged later).

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know a lot of the details, but everything I've heard over the last couple of years indicated that AMD was absolutely crushing Intel. A recent laptop I purchased, as well as the last desktop I put together (~2 years ago) each have Ryzen chips. I forget the details but in addition to performance issues, didn't Intel CPUs also have some major security vulnerabilities? And was it that they were related to instruc…

> everything I've heard over the last couple of years indicated that AMD was absolutely crushing Intel. AMD market cap: $93B Intel market cap: $104B And now you will no longer be able to say that everything you've heard indicates that AMD is "absolutely crushing Intel".

Given their respective revenue, AMD's market cap does indicate they're crushing it.

Their multiplier means that the market thinks highly of their ability to continue to grow.

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