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Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation

businessinsider.com

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Re: Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation

#161

Post by f1shy »

viktree wrote: post #130
f1shy wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you worked in any big company afterward (or before) that was not toxic? The reason of my question: I work in a very big company, and I found it very toxic. I wonder if all big companies are the same. I need to know if I would switch. But I do not want to go to smaller company.

I'm curious, what's the big company you are at now?

One of the most toxic things of the company, is the possibility of being sued for virtually anything. So I prefer not even name them. It is a automotive supplier in the EU.

Re: Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation

#162

Post by benj111 »

tomatocracy wrote: post #106
michaelt wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sorry, but in the real world, "finders keepers" rarely applies If Bob signs a contract for Alice to paint a fence for $800 and a copy-paste error transfers her $1000 instead, yes. But if the copy-paste error happened before the contract was signed? Leading to Bob promising Alice $1000 and signing a contract promising it? Then in all probability, Bob will end up paying the contract amount.

This area of law is usually a bit more nuanced than "what you wrote is the contract". If both parties thought the contract said $800 when it was signed (and if that could be proven...) then that might well be enough for a court to either read the contract as if it said $800, or to void it entirely.

If both parties thought it said $800, why are they going to court about it?

A contract is an agreement between parties. Parties are free to agree to changes to the contract.

Re: Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation

#163

Post by benj111 »

ajross wrote: post #155
pyuser583 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re wrong and spreading confusion. Every job I’ve had has had a contract, and it’s usually “we pay what we want, we terminate you when we want, and you quit when you want.”

No, no, no. That's not a "contract", it's just a document. Go google "seven elements of a contract" (the basic definition in common law) and note that at-will employment simply lacks several (the big one being "certainty"). In particular a "contract" that says "you can do whatever" is clearly not a contract under common law. Now, sure, it's true that some elements of an employment agreement may constitute contracts a…

Re Certainty.

I'm pretty sure if you do work, as contractually agreed, the contract requires you be paid for that work.

It's just a contract agreeing rates for work done, not a contract guaranteeing work will be done.

Re: Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation

#164

Post by benj111 »

bombcar wrote: post #120
SoftTalker wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if you'd be safe just sticking it in a savings account until they asked for it back. I mean, is it your responsibility to point out their mistake? And after how much time might they lose their right to demand it back?

The general consensus seems to be either leave it in the checking account until it is pulled back (and it almost always will be unless the amount is "small or reasonable" and therefor not caught in an audit) or directly contact the company immediately. Moving it to a savings account is tricky because the automatic clawback will pull from whatever account it was sent into. Once the company issues a W2 or 1099 the next…

>Moving it to a savings account is tricky because the automatic clawback will pull from whatever account it was sent into.

As a non American this seems... Flawed.

Re: Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation

#165

Post by benj111 »

My first job. The pay roll guy was absolutely useless.

once I had done 30+ hours and been paid Anyway once they paid us all twice, and sent us all a letter with the payslip basically saying we wouldn't be paid the next week. The one time they actually caught their own error.

Re: Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation

#167

Post by ajross »

benj111 wrote: post #163
ajross wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, no, no. That's not a "contract", it's just a document. Go google "seven elements of a contract" (the basic definition in common law) and note that at-will employment simply lacks several (the big one being "certainty"). In particular a "contract" that says "you can do whatever" is clearly not a contract under common law. Now, sure, it's true that some elements of an employment agreement may constitute contracts a…

Re Certainty. I'm pretty sure if you do work, as contractually agreed, the contract requires you be paid for that work. It's just a contract agreeing rates for work done, not a contract guaranteeing work will be done.

> I'm pretty sure if you do work, as contractually agreed, the contract requires you be paid for that work.

Yes it does (and I even said so in the comment you replied to), but compensation plans, raises, offer letters, etc... are not payment for work done, and are not contracts for work for the reason stated. These Amazon folks aren't getting a penny, and it absolutely stuns me that people want to argue otherwise.

Re: Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation

#168

Post by imwillofficial »

woobar wrote: post #147
imwillofficial wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Levels is garbage data. How is this not obvious?

This is not obvious to me. I had access to comp data at two different companies and Levels data was pretty accurate across the board.

I’ve never seen it be close to any job I’ve ever had access to data for

Re: Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation

#169

Post by KallDrexx »

ineedasername wrote: post #153
KallDrexx wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a mis-communication by the employee. There are several events that happen with refreshers/bonus: 1) Notification period 2) Granting period 3) Vesting period When the notification period happens, the manager doesn't say "You are getting X units of stock". The compensation system actually at this point has zero idea how many units of stock you are getting. Instead you get told "you are getting $x worth of st…

Perhaps the communication process varies a bit then. The only situations I've ever encountered or heard of come in the form of "X units". E.g., After starting you might be assigned 1000 RSUs that vest in two years. At the two year point when you receive them you're given the $ value and often (not always) the company will automatically withhold the portion necessary to cover the taxes that will come due that year. I'…

I guess it just varies by company then.

For example, my company unlocked annual amounts on August 15th and I was told I was getting $56k worth of stock. The stock was granted into my account on August 31st.

My stock at grant time was exactly Units * Price on August 31st = $56k. If I was granted stock when the annual amounts were announced (August 15th) the same number of stock would have been worth ~$62k

Re: Amazon walking back raises after internal bug miscalculated compensation

#170

Post by pyuser583 »

ajross wrote: post #155
pyuser583 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re wrong and spreading confusion. Every job I’ve had has had a contract, and it’s usually “we pay what we want, we terminate you when we want, and you quit when you want.”

No, no, no. That's not a "contract", it's just a document. Go google "seven elements of a contract" (the basic definition in common law) and note that at-will employment simply lacks several (the big one being "certainty"). In particular a "contract" that says "you can do whatever" is clearly not a contract under common law. Now, sure, it's true that some elements of an employment agreement may constitute contracts a…

Contracts include unbounded variables all the time.

Banks offer accounts with “whatever we feel like” interest rates. Bonds can have “whatever we feel like” interest rates. Stocks can have “whatever we feel like” dividends. Short term rentals have “whatever we feel like” rental prices.

In practice, the payer offers a very short term guarantee: “for the next pay period, you will get $50 an hour”, but after that pay period they change it.

There are contracts behind all these things.

One party offers something on a continuous basis: labor, money, etc. The other party walks away when they don’t like what they’re getting.

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