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Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

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Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#161

Post by origin_path »

bzxcvbn wrote: post #12
typon wrote: post #9

What amount would these EU fines have to be to make companies like Google and Facebook decide to exit the EU?

This is never going to happen. It's just too big of a market.

Never is a big word. Every time the EU levies fines like this it's effectively the market getting smaller.

Also, there's degrees of exit. Google can exit the market and have zero presence in the EU whilst still sub-licensing tech to affiliates who pay for the privilege and resell their stuff, whilst dealing with all the local regulatory overheads. Plenty of firms use that sort of model.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#163

Post by bush-bby »

tester756 wrote: post #124
p-e-w wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is essentially nothing. Imagine an individual, caught committing an illegal act of this magnitude for the third time , being fined 1.45% of their annual pre-tax salary, with no other consequences. Speeding tickets are costlier than this in many jurisdictions.

>Which is essentially nothing. Holy shit. Is it some sign of being on HN too much? Sure, 1.45% is small, because % is shitty at representing the real value at this point at the end of the day it's fucking $4 000 000 000 It's year salary of 2200 well paid engineers That's industry-changing level of possibilities

1.8 mil is “well-payed”…?

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#164

Post by robomartin »

Does the money in these cases go to government? Not sure how it is in the EU.

This is one of the aspects of government-based fines I dislike. The money should go to the people, the victims, not government. They go after a company that may have damaged consumers and then proceed to grab the fine instead of giving it to the people who were the actual victims of the transgression.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#165

Post by dahfizz »

endisneigh wrote: post #155
layer8 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, not require that Chrome be preinstalled as the default browser on Android devices, and not require that a bundle of Google apps be preinstalled if any of them is preinstalled.

Is this not already possible with things like LineageOS?

Its an issue with bundling. If a phone manufacturer wants to ship an Android phone with Google Play Store (and they all do), then they must also include a bunch of other Google stuff. The EU wants Google to license the Play Store but not force the inclusion of all their other apps.

So yes, a manufacturer could ship a phone with a de-Googled LineageOS. But they cannot today ship a phone with Play Store, but without Chrome, etc.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#166

Post by perlgeek »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #50
p-e-w wrote: post #32

> This is Google's third EU antitrust fine. Previously, the search giant was fined in a shopping case and an online advertising case. Apparently, "three strikes and you're out" only applies to individuals, who with a repeat offense of this magnitude would have their lives destroyed by the justice system, and get locked away for a decade or more.

We really need the equivalent of jail time for companies. Clearly after a certain size, fines do not cut it. Jailing executives is too hard, so laws should exist that remove the company from a market for x years or something, like if they were in a cell.

I agree that we need better enforcement mechanisms, but I'm not sold on a "time out".

What would that even mean? If you aren't allowed to participate in the Maps business for, let's say, 2 years, does that mean you cannot offer the app for download? Then everybody stays on the old version, and cannot install security updates.

Or that you cannot offer it as a new install? Then people changing their phones are screwed.

Or that you cannot offer new maps? Then people rely on the old ones, running into permanently closed roads.

Or that your servers must immediately stop serving map tiles? Customer's won't be very happy about that either.

That you cannot make any revenue from the service? Kinda hard to do when your service is maps, but the revenue source is ads.

And so on, ad infinitum.

Consumers tend to switch apps pretty quickly, but what about b2b software? Switching over to a database from another vendor can easily be a 3 to 5 years project, so it's likely that many customers would simply sit out such a jail time.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#168

Post by timmg »

tmoravec wrote: post #93
Normille wrote: post #70

Cool. The EU does have its [many!] faults. But they have a pretty good track record when it comes to consumer rights and consumer choice. Next up I'd like to see them do the same for the plethora of incompatible cordless power-tool systems out there as they did with insisting all mobile phones standardise on a USB connector.

> pretty good track record when it comes to consumer rights Are you sure EU has "pretty good track record" with these fines of Google, FB, et al.? If anything, I'd say the EU puts a mild theatre every now and then, and gives the US giants a free pass otherwise.

> and gives the US giants a free pass otherwise.

Probably because I work in tech in the US, but that has not been my view.

What was the fine that the EU put on VW for intentionally cheating on emissions standards? And how does that compare with the many fines Google has gotten?

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#169

Post by 1234letshaveatw »

tmoravec wrote: post #93
Normille wrote: post #70

Cool. The EU does have its [many!] faults. But they have a pretty good track record when it comes to consumer rights and consumer choice. Next up I'd like to see them do the same for the plethora of incompatible cordless power-tool systems out there as they did with insisting all mobile phones standardise on a USB connector.

> pretty good track record when it comes to consumer rights Are you sure EU has "pretty good track record" with these fines of Google, FB, et al.? If anything, I'd say the EU puts a mild theatre every now and then, and gives the US giants a free pass otherwise.

I'm pretty sure one of the main reasons the EU exists is to fine US tech companies instead of trying to compete

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#170

Post by gwerbret »

A summary of the original findings by the European Commission (1):

"By decision of 18 July 2018, the Commission fined Google for having abused its dominant position by imposing anticompetitive contractual restrictions on manufacturers of mobile devices and on mobile network operators, in some cases since 1 January 2011. Three types of restriction were identified:

1. those contained in ‘distribution agreements’, requiring manufacturers of mobile devices to pre-install the general search (Google Search) and (Chrome) browser apps in order to be able to obtain a licence from Google to use its app store (Play Store);

2. those contained in ‘anti-fragmentation agreements’, under which the operating licences necessary for the pre-installation of the Google Search and Play Store apps could be obtained by mobile device manufacturers only if they undertook not to sell devices running versions of the Android operating system not approved by Google;

3. those contained in ‘revenue share agreements’, under which the grant of a share of Google’s advertising revenue to the manufacturers of mobile devices and the mobile network operators concerned was subject to their undertaking not to pre-install a competing general search service on a predefined portfolio of devices."

1: https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/jcms/p1_3862705/en/

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