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Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

reuters.com

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Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#161

Post by taejo »

kccqzy wrote: post #107
Semaphor wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is, that the process to overturn a law takes years, but introducing the same law (with a slightly different paint) again takes months. Or for some reductio ad absurdum: Slavery is legal for 10 months per year, but every October the Slavery Legalization law gets struck down by the courts, proof that our democracy works.

Why does it take so long though? In the United States courts often issue a preliminary injunction or temporary restraining order to stop the enforcement of law. This way the courts can take their time in deciding a case while the new law does not get enforced.

In this case (IIRC) two service providers went to court and the law was put out of force for them, at which point the federal agency in charge of enforcing it decided not to do so until the matter was resolved by the highest court. So in some sense it did work.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#162

Post by that_guy_iain »

Germany is a weird one. On one side of things, they really like their privacy. People will routinely upload pictures to instagram where they find their faces and faces of others for pictures they posed for. I don't get it, if you posed for a picture to go on Instagram why do you need your face covered?

On other side of things the goverment does more data collection and data requests than nearly every other goverment. The goverment is super willing to record everything you do. While at the same time making it illegal for you to record someone without their knowledge.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#163

Post by PeterisP »

joker99 wrote: post #85
Etheryte wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, doesn't Germany have the equivalent of a constitutional watchdog? For example in Estonia, the president fills this role (as do some other constitutions, but the president is a good example in this context). The president is otherwise a purely ceremonial figurehead in Estonia, but one functional role they fill is that before any new bill becomes law, they have to sign off on it and declare it's const…

We do, pretty much the same as your situation. However, it doesn't happen very often that the Bundespräsident actually does this. Their role is almost purely ceremonial and I could count the cases on one hand where they used this power. Some legal professionals argue, that this check is basically a ceremonial one as well.

An oversight mechanism doesn't have to be used often in order to be effective - even if it's not used, the fact that it is there acts as a check and balance because then others don't try to submit outrageous things which will be rejected.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#164

Post by PeterisP »

whimsicalism wrote: post #60
themitigating wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Political apathy comes from the political party that would most benefit from low turnout. If you are disappointed with politics that is a reason to vote. If you don't care, that's a valid reason not to vote

Is there not a limit case? Would you tell people in China, "if you are disappointed with politics, vote in your People's Congress elections?"

Why not?

If you have a one-party system, then all it means that the actual policy choices are made not by parties, but rather by factions or individuals within the one party, so if you want to change things, then the levers of change are obtained not by being a voter (or candidate) and having your party gain positions in the country but by being a party member (or official) and having your faction supporters gain positions in the party.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#165

Post by shuuv4678igt »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #162

Germany is a weird one. On one side of things, they really like their privacy. People will routinely upload pictures to instagram where they find their faces and faces of others for pictures they posed for. I don't get it, if you posed for a picture to go on Instagram why do you need your face covered? On other side of things the goverment does more data collection and data requests than nearly every other goverment.…

A: http://stasi-museum.de/

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#166

Post by shuuv4678igt »

int_19h wrote: post #110

There's a curious comment on that article from a person in support of that retention law: "Google can do that [blanket data collection], my Chinese mobile phone manufacturer too, why shouldn't the government be able to do it?" Something to ponder when we talk about data collection by private parties: like it or not, it does provide justification for governments doing the same.

look no further then all the data cloudflare collects on us all.

did you ever see a cloudflare gdpr consent popup?

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#167

Post by prottog »

jackvalentine wrote: post #158
edgyquant wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give an example where this has been the case? That a ceremonial monarch or executive is now an active participant in government?

The former Prime Minister of Australia had the Governor General (a largely ceremonial role) secretly swear him in to multiple ministries without the knowledge of the incumbent minister, the parliament or the public. The Governor General didn’t publicise these appointments. The PM then used his new ministerial powers a couple of times. The convention expected was the GG would announce these appointments, he didn’t and…

Politics in the Lucky Country are really mind-boggling sometimes.

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#168

Post by djbebs »

immibis wrote: post #123
ghiculescu wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can opt out of using Google or buying Chinese phones more easily than you can opt out of being German. Governments have more unchecked power and should be held to a higher standard accordingly.

In the EU, you can very easily opt out of living in Germany.

Can I opt out of German interference in my country via the EU?

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#169

Post by zoobab »

Semaphor wrote: post #3

Our data retention laws get overturned all the time. Usually already by our constitutional courts. Sadly our politicians don’t care much and don’t get punished, so they just try it again and again and again and usually it’s in effect for a while before the courts give judgement. I really can’t explain where Politikverdrossenheit (political apathy) comes from. edit: The last sentence is sarcasm

Same here in Belgium: https://edri.org/our-work/new-belgian-data-retention-law-a-e...

After DataRet was stroke down by the Constitutional Court, our Justice Minister Vincent Van Quickenborne pushed for a new data retention that only targets 100% of the surface of the country:

https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/targeted-data-retention-onl...

Re: Germany's blanket data retention law is illegal, EU top court says

#170

Post by themitigating »

function_seven wrote: post #92
themitigating wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it has no positives what are the negatives?

Providing legitimacy to parties or institutions that you reject. Simpsons did it: "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos"

Provides legitmacy by whom and how is this used?

Counter In europe many elections have extremely low turnout but governments are considered legitimate

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