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What I’ve learned from users

paulgraham.com

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Re: What I’ve learned from users

#161

Post by yitianjian »

vl wrote: post #158
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a top US university in a stem degree. My coworker was a med student that couldn't pass the Mcats, but wasn't a bozo. Basically everyone had a degree, and everyone made atleast $100k. I personally made about $225k but as I said, I was pretty good. I know a person in Bay area car sales making $300k+. I assume there are many others. I assume you agree a McDonald's employee is not going to close accountants and…

It looks like it was luxury brand dealership?

Roughly $45k/car could be luxury depending on what years, yeah. A decade of car selling likely puts it in the 2000's at the earliest.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#162

Post by JoeAltmaier »

phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #94

PGs take on why early stage VCs gain so much experience reminds me of my opinions on why car sales is the best sales experience. I sold cars for almost a decade and was pretty good at it averaging 30 cars a month. That means every year I helped people sign for $16 million of products. In the end I probably sold 3000 cars for over $100 million. (Note, I stayed in it way too long. I think most of these benefits would c…

Fortunately our local dealership is no-commission. So the folks are honestly trying to help you figure out what's right for you.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#163

Post by pyb »

paxys wrote: post #142
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #94

PGs take on why early stage VCs gain so much experience reminds me of my opinions on why car sales is the best sales experience. I sold cars for almost a decade and was pretty good at it averaging 30 cars a month. That means every year I helped people sign for $16 million of products. In the end I probably sold 3000 cars for over $100 million. (Note, I stayed in it way too long. I think most of these benefits would c…

While what you are saying is historically true, the internet has made the car salesman role pretty much irrelevant. I expect the job (and dealerships themselves) won't exist a decade or two from now. There are enough pictures, videos, spec sheets, expert reviews and forum discussions available online that the word of a sleazy salesman is worth nothing. More and more customers today walk into dealerships only because…

Car salespeople still exist for the same reason recruiters still exist, despite Linkedin.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#164

Post by phpthrowaway99 »

paxys wrote: post #155
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been saying this for 20 years. Yet car salespeople are more important than ever from what I've seen. But let's ignore that because you could argue it's just opinion. My favorite example/rebuttal to this is: Imagine a car sales evolves to basically vending machines. You walk up to the box, pick a car, swipe your card, and a roll-up door opens and your car pops out. Amazing! No salespeople needed. Every tow…

Who was saying this 20 years ago? eCommerce was barely a thing back then. Smartphones, YouTube and Twitter didn't exist. The only people who knew about new cars and their features were enthusiasts who got a dozen magazine subscriptions. The difference is that today there are actually companies successfully following this model, Tesla being the most prominent example. All other manufacturers want to cut down on the ma…

People have been saying this since dealerships stared buying internet leads. I started in 2008. Even then internet departments were fully built out and everyone was worried about the end of salespeople for several years. So yes, even back in 1999 you could email a dealership and work multiple salespeople against each other. And that made people talk about the end of salespeople, negotiated prices, and dealerships.

Even Tesla has a lot of salespeople, at corporate and at the showcase stores. You just can't get a discount from them.

If someone built a car vending machine, it would only be a matter of time until someone noticed you can make sales go up at the vending machine by putting someone standing next to it.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#165

Post by phpthrowaway99 »

wizofaus wrote: post #160
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been saying this for 20 years. Yet car salespeople are more important than ever from what I've seen. But let's ignore that because you could argue it's just opinion. My favorite example/rebuttal to this is: Imagine a car sales evolves to basically vending machines. You walk up to the box, pick a car, swipe your card, and a roll-up door opens and your car pops out. Amazing! No salespeople needed. Every tow…

A smart helpful person is one thing. Someone whose pay cheque depends on convincing people to buy a car even if it's not the right one for them is something else entirely.

Dealerships try to hire smart helpful people that can sell 30+ cars a month like I did. They don't always succeed, just like most companies can't hire the best programmers consistently either.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#166

Post by phpthrowaway99 »

vl wrote: post #156
ejb999 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather go get a cavity filled, then buy a new car. Do it as infrequently as possible (hoping to get another 10 years out of my 11 year old Toyota). Every time I visit a new car dealer I feel a need to take a shower, just to get the stink off of me.

BTW, apart from fixed price online sales, there are fixed priced dealerships. They advertise price on the website and don't negotiate. You just show up and get car at this price. Very smooth.

You can do this at any dealership.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#167

Post by phpthrowaway99 »

btbuildem wrote: post #145
lnwlebjel wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I rank buy a car from a new car salesman as the worst consumer experience of my life. So much so that I've since bought used cars and in the future hope to buy a Tesla in large part to avoid that experience. I understand that it could greatly benefit the salesperson in understanding the social psychology of the consumer ... but never again will I subject myself to that process.

I've only ever bought used cars, from individuals. Paying extra for the overhead of a dealership and some salesperson's bonus seems absurd to me. You're pretty much guaranteed to get taken advantage of by a professional. Local classifieds, private sellers, take the car to a trusted mechanic for an inspection.

Op here, selling 3000 cars.

I've never bought a car at a dealership, and neither has anyone in my family in 25 years. But then again, I know cars inside and out (even from before my car sales career) so I feel pretty safe not accidentally buying a scammers car from Craigslist.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#168

Post by FerociousTimes »

christophilus wrote: post #122
tenpies wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in the future hope to buy a Tesla in large part to avoid that experience And see Tesla knows this, which is why the margin on their cars is higher than most. You may have disliked that sales experience with a dealer or used car salesperson, but it quite likely got you a slightly better deal than had you tried to negotiate yourself.

The margin might simply be from cutting out the middleman while keeping the middleman price. So, the buyer is not necessarily better or worse off. But not having to go through a pushy salesman is a big win. It’s why I love Carmax (and would probably like Carvana).

Tesla was supposed to pass some of those cost savings onto the end customer not to pocket it all like this but I'm aware that it's a corporation that's looking to maximize profits to their shareholders and extract as much value as possible from their clientele.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#169

Post by foobarian »

phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #134
lotsofpulp wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is interesting because as a car buyer, the only experience I want is car sellers quoting me prices until I get the lowest one. All via email.

I would get many of these type leads. The better you are, the more of these you can close. They're not anyone's favorite, but if I have a car we can't sell because it's an ugly color, or weird options configuration, or in general we need to move some cars, I'd play along. I'm just kidding a bit. In reality, even very desirable cars can have this game played on them. I once sold a car $25k over MSRP, and the customer…

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