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iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

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Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#161

Post by _rs »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #78
scarface74 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does have it’s own GPS. But if it tethered with your phone, it uses that instead to save battery life. The same is true for cellular Apple Watches.

Similarly, if you are using CarPlay, it will use your car's GPS instead of the built-in one. I figured this out when my car's GPS developed a fault which often gave a lock hundreds of meters away from my actual position, and my phone did the same thing when connected via CarPlay.

Hmm, there must be a lot of cars without their own GPS then, or maybe apps can choose to use it or not? When I use Waze with rental cars I often see Waze responding to my phones orientation when CarPlay is active. Unless Waze is using orientation just for visual and the GPS is used for the position

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#162

Post by nradov »

bobthepanda wrote: post #137
reportingsjr wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GNSS is a generic term for satellite based positioning systems. It looks like you're referring to the iPhone adding Galileo support in the 8/X. L5 support has been available in a number of devices for a couple of years now. Garmin was one of the first to use L5 in commercial devices, with their Fenix watches a while back. The phone I'm currently using, the Pixel 6 Pro uses the L5 band. It's nice and I can definitely…

In my experience I find Apple tends not to add features that don’t meet a reliability or quality bar, which is why they’re usually not first movers on things like 4G or 5G. I had an LG phone that was one of the first in 4G (at least on my carrier) and the thing ran so hot it was often painful to touch.

Nope, Apple is just late to the party here. Multi-frequency GPS has been completely reliable in competing devices for at least two generations.

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#163

Post by alephxyz »

sorenjan wrote: post #80

Xiaomi released a phone with dual frequency GNSS in 2018 (with the Broadcom BCM4775 chipset), and as far as I know most Android phones have had it since then, or maybe a bit later. If you want to see if your phone supports it, try GPSTest. Garmin has recently released several watches with it as well, both their high end models and some more affordable ones. They also have an auto mode that switches it on or off depen…

Does the Android OS and apps like Google maps actually use multiple frequencies to get a position fix? I have friends with Samsung phones supporting dual frequency gps yet the GPS accuracy doesn't seem any better than single frequency devices.

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#164

Post by coder543 »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #89
microtonal wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I used various Garmin GPS devices before, GPS (eTrex 30, gpsmap 62s) and GPS+GLONASS+Galileo. But my multi-band gpsmap 66sr gets a fix insanely quick compared to these other devices and the tracks are very accurate/steady. Here is a nice review that compares the gpsmap 66sr, gps 66i, iPhone 12 Pro and Fenix 6x Pro Solar: https://hikingguy.com/hiking-gear/garmin-gpsmap-66sr-review-...

I've been thinking about getting one of those, I would really want to buy a GPSMap 66sr but I also use InReach a lot. Which the 66i has, but it lacks the dual-band GPS... So neither option is really perfect. And it's a big expense for me so I don't want to buy something that gets superseded a month later (again) In the end I decided I'd wait until Garmin comes up with a GPSMap which has both dualband and InReach. But…

Would the iPhone 14's built-in Satellite SOS (and satellite location sharing with friends) feature replace your need for an InReach device? It depends on how you use the InReach, I guess.

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#165

Post by sorenjan »

reportingsjr wrote: post #126
pilif wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has supported GNSS since the iPhone 8/X generation in 2017. This is about L5 GPS which I'm not sure how well this is supported in general ATM as its pretty new

GNSS is a generic term for satellite based positioning systems. It looks like you're referring to the iPhone adding Galileo support in the 8/X. L5 support has been available in a number of devices for a couple of years now. Garmin was one of the first to use L5 in commercial devices, with their Fenix watches a while back. The phone I'm currently using, the Pixel 6 Pro uses the L5 band. It's nice and I can definitely…

Garmin only recently introduced dual-frequency GNSS in some versions of their Fenix 7 watches, and have since added it to some cheaper models like the Forerunner 255. The first watch with L1+L5 was the Coros Vertix 2 from last year, so it's still quite new in watches.

Qualcomm has had it since the Snapdragon 855 though, so basically every flagship Android phone since 2019.

https://support.garmin.com/en-IE/marine/faq/9NWiPDU4gM0JWMfd...

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#166

Post by parshimers »

_rs wrote: post #159
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars also do dead reckoning with wheel and steering data so you get pretty decent data in tunnels where basic GPS fails.

Could you expand more on this? Very curious what this means/how it works

Most headunits with Carplay require you to have the vehicle speed sensor connected to them. They also have a compass. So, if you lose GPS, you have the 3 components you need for dead reckoning: A starting location, a heading, and a speed. It works pretty good even in complex areas like parking garages.

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#167

Post by Krasnol »

osigurdson wrote: post #114
rnk wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

It interesting how Apple has been able to stay ahead while often being a step or two behind from a technological standpoint (in some areas at least). I think it goes to show how important it is to have things work in a very seamless way.

> stay ahead while often being a step or two behind

Yeah, good advertising can make even those sentences a valid statement.

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#168

Post by sorenjan »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #127
sorenjan wrote: post #80

Xiaomi released a phone with dual frequency GNSS in 2018 (with the Broadcom BCM4775 chipset), and as far as I know most Android phones have had it since then, or maybe a bit later. If you want to see if your phone supports it, try GPSTest. Garmin has recently released several watches with it as well, both their high end models and some more affordable ones. They also have an auto mode that switches it on or off depen…

How long ago was that? I never remember it taking more than a minute or so to get a good fix with GPS devices. I'm talking about Garmin devices.

The first GPS device I used didn't have any built in maps, only a breadcrumb trail on a monochrome LCD display. It used AA batteries and it was before selective availability was turned off, so accuracy was quite poor compared to today. Late -90s, so around 25 years ago now. If I recall correctly it was a Garmin 38.

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#169

Post by sorenjan »

alephxyz wrote: post #163
sorenjan wrote: post #80

Xiaomi released a phone with dual frequency GNSS in 2018 (with the Broadcom BCM4775 chipset), and as far as I know most Android phones have had it since then, or maybe a bit later. If you want to see if your phone supports it, try GPSTest. Garmin has recently released several watches with it as well, both their high end models and some more affordable ones. They also have an auto mode that switches it on or off depen…

Does the Android OS and apps like Google maps actually use multiple frequencies to get a position fix? I have friends with Samsung phones supporting dual frequency gps yet the GPS accuracy doesn't seem any better than single frequency devices.

It's transparent to the apps, it's included in all GPS (or technically GNSS) locations. GPSTest has a built in accuracy test mode where to can measure your phones location accuracy. Read more about that here: https://barbeau.medium.com/measuring-gnss-accuracy-on-androi...

I noticed a huge difference when I switched from my older phone to my current with dual frequency, and I usually log runs, walks, and bike rides so it's easy to compare the tracks. But maybe my old phone was just bad, my Garmin watch uses single frequency and it's usually quite good anyway. I've seen a few reviews of new Garmin watches and there dual frequency seems to make a small and not always noticeable difference.

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#170

Post by LeoPanthera »

_rs wrote: post #161
LeoPanthera wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, if you are using CarPlay, it will use your car's GPS instead of the built-in one. I figured this out when my car's GPS developed a fault which often gave a lock hundreds of meters away from my actual position, and my phone did the same thing when connected via CarPlay.

Hmm, there must be a lot of cars without their own GPS then, or maybe apps can choose to use it or not? When I use Waze with rental cars I often see Waze responding to my phones orientation when CarPlay is active. Unless Waze is using orientation just for visual and the GPS is used for the position

Orientation uses the accelerometer, not GPS.
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