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Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

insideevs.com

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Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#161

Post by poutine »

olivermarks wrote: post #133
poutine wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former driver of many Audi quattros and a Canadian who lives on top of a hill with a AWD Tesla 3 I can say it's the best handling car in snow that I've driven (given clearance limits of a sedan). The instant reaction speed of its electric traction control to slippage will vastly outperform any manual transmission. You can drive like an idiot with the pedal to the floor and the car sorts itself out.

Interesting. I have fanatical Tesla fanboy friends in Denver Colorado who don't drive their teslas much in winter because they handle poorly in the snow on steep inclines and declines. The door lock issues and cold weather battery energy life and charging issues were their other problems

The RWD is a bit of a different beast than the AWD. It's much easier to get stuck on that one due to its weight when reversing up a hill.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#162

Post by kQq9oHeAz6wLLS »

superchroma wrote: post #102
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EV Dodge Charger (car not car-charger, oh my god, what a branding screw up) To be fair, the Charger name was created long before it meant "thing you use to plug into an electric device", and the Charger is a very popular vehicle in the Dodge lineup. And you don't abandon popular models without generating negative PR. So Dodge didn't really have a choice. Plus, they can use the pun in witty commercials.

I know, they could have chosen the Dart or stuck with the Challenger. Or, wild idea, go for the Coronet, Plymouth Cuda, Roadrunner or GTX. I guess they're going to go with the joke, anyway.

Going with the joke is kinda Dodge's schtick these days. Sets them apart.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#163

Post by SoftTalker »

Analemma_ wrote: post #156
itronitron wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why should manual transmissions be limited to only petroleum powered engine? Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Electric motors don’t need manual (or indeed, any) transmissions because they have a basically-flat torque curve across their entire RPM range. The only options for an electric motor are fake transmission or no transmission, and the parent is arguing for the latter and against “transmission cosplay”. A real manual transmission on an electric car would have no point.

Electric motors draw more current when starting up and when delivering high torque. It's conceivable that with a transmission, maximum current draw could be lowered, perhaps leading to longer-lived batteries or lower demand for battery cooling, smaller gauge wiring, smaller motors, or other cost savings. Don't know for sure on any of this, but it seems plausible. On the other hand, if it really made a difference, why aren't the EV makers already doing it?

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#164

Post by xanathar »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #157
hbarka wrote: post #131

Hyundai, Kia, and Audi EVs have paddle shifters which controls the level of regeneration braking and feels very much like downshifting. One paddle (+) steps up the regen to the point where the “drag” gets progressively stronger. The other paddle (-) steps down regen to 0 where the car can coast and there is no regen drag whatsoever. Note this is not the same as Neutral. The car is always in Drive. The function only a…

Is it coincidence that so many designs first seen in Audi seem to show up in Hyundia/Kia at a short delay?

The Audi e-Tron debuted on 17 September 2018. The Kia e-Niro debuted on 18 September 2018. The Hyundai Kona was selling in the USA on November 2017.

Are you referring to a different model? Because if we consider the e-Tron... it doesn't seem to be where this design was first seen.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#165

Post by lokedhs »

hbarka wrote: post #131

Hyundai, Kia, and Audi EVs have paddle shifters which controls the level of regeneration braking and feels very much like downshifting. One paddle (+) steps up the regen to the point where the “drag” gets progressively stronger. The other paddle (-) steps down regen to 0 where the car can coast and there is no regen drag whatsoever. Note this is not the same as Neutral. The car is always in Drive. The function only a…

I have the Niro EV, and it was my first EV. The paddle shifters are amazing, and you get used to them very quickly. I recently rented another EV and I was surprised it wasn't there.

Most of the time I can drive without even touching the brake pedal, since you can hold the left paddle and it will engage maximum engine braking, which it quite powerful. This helps with battery as well since there is less energy loss when braking.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#166

Post by michaelt »

spellboots wrote: post #80
gpt5 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counter argument is that European vehicles are vastly using manual gear, despite the fact that except for a small minority, no one cares about the potential difference in torque. There is just a lot of people that are used the a certain solution and are resistant to change.

There are economic and regulatory factors involved, it is more complex than people being resistant to change which no doubt makes up part of it. In the UK, for example, automatic cars are more expensive to buy and insure [1]. They also tend to be more expensive to learn how to drive as instructors mostly have manual cars to teach with. This incentivises new drivers towards manual cars, especially as younger drivers a…

Somewhat surprisingly, in the UK Autotrader lists 230k manual cars and 195k automatics

So the fraction of manual-transmission cars in the UK is much lower than I would have expected.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#167

Post by topspin »

throwaway787544 wrote: post #41

I like the idea, but I'd rather an ICE conversion with a real drivetrain and transmission and an EV motor. I'll build it myself if no manufacturers will.

This is already widespread. You can buy a electric crate engine from Ford for about $4000. That is, when they are not sold out.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#168

Post by lokedhs »

detaro wrote: post #108
qikInNdOutReply wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual reason for having gears even with EVs in european vehicles, is mostly the "one plattform" approach which carmakers here afraid to go all in on EVs. Hybrids, traditional combustion and EVs are expected to share as many parts as possible - which of course as all engineering compromises go means you become 2nd best in all areas.

Any examples of cars where that's the case?

The Kia Niro is available in three models: Petrol, Hybrid and EV. Now, I have the EV and it doesn't have any gears, but I'm pretty sure there is a lot of things shared between these cars.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#169

Post by hello639 »

csw-001 wrote: post #159
zcw100 wrote: post #134

I love driving manual transmission cars but I really don't like this. It's like cosplay for cars. The simulated experience makes it very uncool. I'd rather just let the manual transmission have one last dignified drive into the sunset.

If the artificial version is so life like you can’t tell it’s not a “real” transmission does it pass the “touring test”?

Damn you. Here, take my upvote.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#170

Post by [deleted] »

xanathar wrote: post #164
jjtheblunt wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it coincidence that so many designs first seen in Audi seem to show up in Hyundia/Kia at a short delay?

The Audi e-Tron debuted on 17 September 2018. The Kia e-Niro debuted on 18 September 2018. The Hyundai Kona was selling in the USA on November 2017. Are you referring to a different model? Because if we consider the e-Tron... it doesn't seem to be where this design was first seen.

[deleted]
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